Thursday, July 16, 2009
'A Strong Delusion'
So, I'm reading JOE DALLAS, "A Strong Delusion: Confronting the 'Gay Christian' Movement" -- strongly suggested reading by Focus on the Patriarchy (Focus on the Family) -- and so far, he's confirming my own thinking.
He is equating the Bible itself with the Word, and his whole argument is based on the assertion that a literal reading of Scripture, and chaining all possible meaning for us today of its varrious writings to the original time, context and audience, is the only way to interpret.
Not.
Still reading, though. Convince me, Mr. Dallas.
--ER
He is equating the Bible itself with the Word, and his whole argument is based on the assertion that a literal reading of Scripture, and chaining all possible meaning for us today of its varrious writings to the original time, context and audience, is the only way to interpret.
Not.
Still reading, though. Convince me, Mr. Dallas.
--ER
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Joe Dallas is the Truth and the Light for Joe Dallas. Why are you reading this? What will you learn?
Learnin' with a little more precision the false truths these people keep themselves boxes up in, so far.
I think if you want to read the false truths these people keep themselves boxed up in, you'll have to read between the lines. It's what he doesn't have the guts to write that's probably far more informative than what he actually writes.
Maybe. I'm sort of shocked at how plainly he's maiing his argument: 1. The church's function is to change the world into a worldview defined roughly by the pop culture of white 1950s America; and 2., one mama, one daddy and children is GOD's ORDAINED definion of "family," which is so ludicrous it makes my head hurt. Oh, plus the usual tired, scarhetoric.
If Genesis and Adam and Eve are the model, then God's definition of "family" is incest.
If Genesis and Adam and Eve are the model, then God's definition of "family" is incest.
Shocked? Really? You've been hearing the same things from these sorts of people for a long time, haven't you? Nothing they say surprises me any more.
So you have to wonder... Is he just that stupid?
Or is he just uneducated?
Or is he just a bigot?
Or did he never get picked first for the dodgeball team at recess?
Or is he just jealous?
Or is he just enjoying the money he makes from selling this snake-oil of his?
I don't care what these sorts of people believe because I don't think I'll ever really know the reasons they believe it. If they can't even be honest with what they say out loud, I highly doubt they're being honest with themselves about the things they don't dare say out loud.
So you have to wonder... Is he just that stupid?
Or is he just uneducated?
Or is he just a bigot?
Or did he never get picked first for the dodgeball team at recess?
Or is he just jealous?
Or is he just enjoying the money he makes from selling this snake-oil of his?
I don't care what these sorts of people believe because I don't think I'll ever really know the reasons they believe it. If they can't even be honest with what they say out loud, I highly doubt they're being honest with themselves about the things they don't dare say out loud.
He's an "ex-gay." They're like ex-smokers. Worse even. :-)
I did not pay good money for it. Even better. I got it from someone who wanted me to read it specifically to "enlighten" me.
I did not pay good money for it. Even better. I got it from someone who wanted me to read it specifically to "enlighten" me.
"He's an "ex-gay." They're like ex-smokers. Worse even. :-)"
Except ex-smokers actually exist. ;)
So maybe that's it. It's just his schtick and he's not really qualified to do anything else. Again, that's just something you have to figure out by reading between the lines .... and something I could have guessed without even reading the book. That's one of the things that bore me the most about these sorts of folks, their motives are so cliche.
Except ex-smokers actually exist. ;)
So maybe that's it. It's just his schtick and he's not really qualified to do anything else. Again, that's just something you have to figure out by reading between the lines .... and something I could have guessed without even reading the book. That's one of the things that bore me the most about these sorts of folks, their motives are so cliche.
I read half of his first book which is not iconic among fundamentalist. He was problrm wasn't he was gay. It was that he was promiscouis, immoral, selfcentered and insecure sexually.
His gayness was incindental. If he had written the book as a hetro nobody wold have paid any attention.
You might as well be reading a geological history of the flat 6000year old earth and how God fools us with fake fossils. Wait, maybe even I would read that one. I've always wanted to go to that creationis museum in Kentucky.
Ah,heck do what you have to do.
His gayness was incindental. If he had written the book as a hetro nobody wold have paid any attention.
You might as well be reading a geological history of the flat 6000year old earth and how God fools us with fake fossils. Wait, maybe even I would read that one. I've always wanted to go to that creationis museum in Kentucky.
Ah,heck do what you have to do.
You either go by the Word, or burn by the Word. You can't pick and choose what verse to live by.
I'm afraid you are going to Burn In Hell for your Sins.
I'm afraid you are going to Burn In Hell for your Sins.
# posted by 
: 4:14 PM
: 4:14 PM
Ah, Anonymous, our cowardly friend is back. How sad that he/she clearly holds to the God-as-Angry-Santa approach to theology.
I pity you. If you only knew the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is through that Grace alone that we are saved, through faith alone. We don't earn our salvation through our works. And all our works are equally condemned because sin taints them all. If you think you've earned salvation because of what you do or do not do, or what you believe or do not believe, you are quite simply an ungrateful fool.
I wouldn't go so far as to condemn your repudiation of Christ's sacrifice as blasphemy because quite frankly, I couldn't care less what you think or believe. God will save you or not, regardless of how incorrect and unBiblical your theology. And thanks be to God for that!
And though you say this: "I'm afraid you are going to Burn In Hell for your Sins" you should be honest enough to say what you really mean is "I hope you are going to Burn In Hell for your Sins."
I'll be praying for you. You need it.
I pity you. If you only knew the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is through that Grace alone that we are saved, through faith alone. We don't earn our salvation through our works. And all our works are equally condemned because sin taints them all. If you think you've earned salvation because of what you do or do not do, or what you believe or do not believe, you are quite simply an ungrateful fool.
I wouldn't go so far as to condemn your repudiation of Christ's sacrifice as blasphemy because quite frankly, I couldn't care less what you think or believe. God will save you or not, regardless of how incorrect and unBiblical your theology. And thanks be to God for that!
And though you say this: "I'm afraid you are going to Burn In Hell for your Sins" you should be honest enough to say what you really mean is "I hope you are going to Burn In Hell for your Sins."
I'll be praying for you. You need it.
I agree with Anonymous. Personally, I go by Matthew 7:1... which means that anonymous will be burned by the word.
Wait, is that a tautology?
Wait, is that a tautology?
The sad thing is that he/she has already been burned by the words, given the petrifying fear of fire and brimstone under which he/she lives, believing that if he/she steps out of bounds just once, it's straight to Hell. Again, what a pitiable, miserable existence he/she already leads. People talk about Hell as separation from the Grace of God ... well, s/he's already there.
Unfortunately he/she has read the words (probably not, but I'm feeling generous and will give him/her the benefit of the doubt), but hasn't understood the Word.
Unfortunately he/she has read the words (probably not, but I'm feeling generous and will give him/her the benefit of the doubt), but hasn't understood the Word.
Anon and I will be in the same place I'm sure after all this. We will recognize one another even though we have never met. We will discuss what we were thinking when we wrote all this stuff.
Grace dictates that.
Grace dictates that.
Anonymous, I can only say that Alan's beautiful summation of the Gospel of grace - as a United Methodist I can only say I'm ashamed a Reformed Church person says it so succinctly and beautifully - has fallen on deaf ears. I'm sad for you, really. We are freed for freedom's sake, so we can live as God intended.
Not to be good little boys and girls; we are freed to be free from the burden of sin, and guilt, and death. Yoked to an arbitrary moral code, you can only see God sitting in a room, pince-ne not needed yet perched low on his nose, going over the Divine List of Names, rather than the smiling, affable, open-armed prodigal father, the fatted calf already slaughtered, the friends on the way for the feast set for us. You don't get it because, like the original disciples, you want to argue with the rest over who gets to sit on the right and on the left, rather than just marveling there's a seat, given for free, with nothing asked of us at all.
That's OK, because when all is said and done, and we're gathered around the table together, we can all laugh together at how much we all got wrong. The biggest difference between us is I fully expect us to be there together, our lives laid before us, not to judge and condemn us, but for us to laugh at our foibles and follies. You, however, cannot see us together, because for you it is a race, and you just have to win.
It isn't a race. It isn't a test. It isn't a set of rules for moral living. It's just life, life without worrying whether or not what we are doing is "right" or "wrong" because that's just another way of saying that God's free love isn't enough for us.
Not to be good little boys and girls; we are freed to be free from the burden of sin, and guilt, and death. Yoked to an arbitrary moral code, you can only see God sitting in a room, pince-ne not needed yet perched low on his nose, going over the Divine List of Names, rather than the smiling, affable, open-armed prodigal father, the fatted calf already slaughtered, the friends on the way for the feast set for us. You don't get it because, like the original disciples, you want to argue with the rest over who gets to sit on the right and on the left, rather than just marveling there's a seat, given for free, with nothing asked of us at all.
That's OK, because when all is said and done, and we're gathered around the table together, we can all laugh together at how much we all got wrong. The biggest difference between us is I fully expect us to be there together, our lives laid before us, not to judge and condemn us, but for us to laugh at our foibles and follies. You, however, cannot see us together, because for you it is a race, and you just have to win.
It isn't a race. It isn't a test. It isn't a set of rules for moral living. It's just life, life without worrying whether or not what we are doing is "right" or "wrong" because that's just another way of saying that God's free love isn't enough for us.
I got busy today. I could see the comments here on my cell phone but couldn't reply. I am tickled to see that y'all handled the Anon with aplomb.
Just fucking with you. Shit, god Damn, give a guy a break.
Oh Fuck, can I get in heaven talking like you do sometimes.
Oh Fuck, can I get in heaven talking like you do sometimes.
# posted by : 10:58 PM
: 10:58 PM
Your final comment proves our point more than you know. "Can I get in heaven talking as you do?"
It isn't about the way you talk, think, act, or anything else. You just don't get it, do you. There are things far worse in this world than having a potty mouth. Things like not loving your neighbor, not in an emotive sense, but in an active sense. Things like not seeing Jesus in the eyes of a starving child, a young woman dying of AIDS, a young man suffering under the weight of heroin addiction.
Things like believing one is among the elect and can chortle as the rest of humanity dances on the precipice of the Pit.
When St. Paul wrote that one can have all knowledge and faith, yet not have love, he was talking about your perspective, Anonymous. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it is. We may tire of your simple-mindedness, but we welcome you as a brother/sister, and a plate is always ready for you, water to wash your feet, a new cloak and ring for your finger.
Can you say the same?
It isn't about the way you talk, think, act, or anything else. You just don't get it, do you. There are things far worse in this world than having a potty mouth. Things like not loving your neighbor, not in an emotive sense, but in an active sense. Things like not seeing Jesus in the eyes of a starving child, a young woman dying of AIDS, a young man suffering under the weight of heroin addiction.
Things like believing one is among the elect and can chortle as the rest of humanity dances on the precipice of the Pit.
When St. Paul wrote that one can have all knowledge and faith, yet not have love, he was talking about your perspective, Anonymous. I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's the way it is. We may tire of your simple-mindedness, but we welcome you as a brother/sister, and a plate is always ready for you, water to wash your feet, a new cloak and ring for your finger.
Can you say the same?
The point is, Anon, it's not WTF you *don't* do that marks you as a follower of Jesus -- it's WTF you *do* do.
I ought put that on a bumper sticker: WTFWJD?
I ought put that on a bumper sticker: WTFWJD?
Next time you're G.T.T by car, drive with that bumper sticker, and headlines will blare about heads exploding all over the Lone Star State.
"Just fucking with you. Shit, god Damn, give a guy a break."
No, you weren't. No one is afraid to sign their name to a joke. You were serious, and now you're embarrassed and trying to pass it off as a joke. Then you point out again that you hope we won't be getting into heaven with your question, "Can I get in heaven talking as you do?"
So no, you weren't joking, and now you're probably confused because you might even have once heard all the right words somewhere along the way (eg. "grace alone through faith alone") but to you they're just an ancient magic incantation that has lost its meaning.
Either that or this is just your way of flirting.
See what I mean, ER? Their motives are so cliche.
No, you weren't. No one is afraid to sign their name to a joke. You were serious, and now you're embarrassed and trying to pass it off as a joke. Then you point out again that you hope we won't be getting into heaven with your question, "Can I get in heaven talking as you do?"
So no, you weren't joking, and now you're probably confused because you might even have once heard all the right words somewhere along the way (eg. "grace alone through faith alone") but to you they're just an ancient magic incantation that has lost its meaning.
Either that or this is just your way of flirting.
See what I mean, ER? Their motives are so cliche.
The problem with Anonymi is we tent o think they're all the same. Something tells me this one might be someone I know in the RW, but maybe not. If it is someone I know in the RW, whoever it is: Quit being a chickenshit.
Oh, and I am fixin' to be GTT in about 2 hours. Shame I don't have bumpersticker already made up!
WTFWJD?
I think that's got a future.
Oh, and I am fixin' to be GTT in about 2 hours. Shame I don't have bumpersticker already made up!
WTFWJD?
I think that's got a future.
"The problem with Anonymi is we tent o think they're all the same."
Does it matter? If he/she/they can't be bothered to sign their names, I can't be bothered to give them any more consideration than their lack of conviction deserves.
Does it matter? If he/she/they can't be bothered to sign their names, I can't be bothered to give them any more consideration than their lack of conviction deserves.
Anamouse squeaks always remind me of the guys who write their inner most insights on bathroom stalls.
You know, those witty sayings right beside the, "Do you want a xxxxx (and the telephone number of the last girl that refused them a date)".
ER your counter will tell where he/she is and provide the server from whence it came and then all you have to do is compare it to e-mails or blog postings of RW knowns. Check the location list on the counter,and then click on the one that matches time sent on the blog. Fun, heh?
That also lets you discern among anons to see which one it is.
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You know, those witty sayings right beside the, "Do you want a xxxxx (and the telephone number of the last girl that refused them a date)".
ER your counter will tell where he/she is and provide the server from whence it came and then all you have to do is compare it to e-mails or blog postings of RW knowns. Check the location list on the counter,and then click on the one that matches time sent on the blog. Fun, heh?
That also lets you discern among anons to see which one it is.
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