Wednesday, May 21, 2008
Apologizing in advance ...
Sigh. I'm posting this because I think it a fair example, a snapshot, of garden-variety "thinking" on the wars. Someone I love who cannot possibly agree with this confused rant forwarded it in teh e-mail.
Read it, but hold on tight! Expect whiplash from contradictions and inconsistencies. How much can someone get mixed up? Oh, and the "Jesus" thing at the end, after the writer spilled so much bile, is hilarious and sad and pathetic all at the same time.
Lord help us.
xxxxxxxxxx
Letter from one "Angry Woman"
"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?
Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania?
Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?
And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? ... Well, I don't. I don't care at all.
I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.
I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.
I'll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for chopping off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.
I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.
I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide.
I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.
In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.
When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured: I don't care.
When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank: I don't care.
When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts: I don't care.
And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and -- you guessed it -- I don't care!!
If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail friends. Sooner or ater, it'll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!
If you don't agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don't complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country!
And may I add: "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem" -- Ronald Reagan.
I have another quote that I would like to add AND ... I hope you forward all this.
"If we ever forget that we're One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." Also by Ronald Reagan.
One last thought for the day: In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during a recent interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America, he said: "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in, and how many want out."
Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The American G.I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET BOTH OF THEM.
Gag.
Discuss.
--ER
Comments:
<< Home
This idea of being killed while fighting the "infidels" to get beamed straight
to heaven, sorry to say, originated on the Christian side.
This kind of
thinking -- the literal demonization -- led good Christians to throw Muslim
babies against walls.
The rant you have posted above and blogs (that can easily
be found) claiming Muslims "worship a different God" continue our long human
tradition of demonizing those who are different.
Regardless of your faith or
ethnicity, if you take up the claim that those who are different belong to some other god -- not children of the same God as you and me -- they ultimately
become less human, which makes it easier to despise them, and ultimately to kill them.
Pope Urban II, launching the first of the Crusades:
"All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of
omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to
wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a
long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their
lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let them eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."
to heaven, sorry to say, originated on the Christian side.
This kind of
thinking -- the literal demonization -- led good Christians to throw Muslim
babies against walls.
The rant you have posted above and blogs (that can easily
be found) claiming Muslims "worship a different God" continue our long human
tradition of demonizing those who are different.
Regardless of your faith or
ethnicity, if you take up the claim that those who are different belong to some other god -- not children of the same God as you and me -- they ultimately
become less human, which makes it easier to despise them, and ultimately to kill them.
Pope Urban II, launching the first of the Crusades:
"All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested. O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of
omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ! With what reproaches will the Lord overwhelm us if you do not aid those who, with us, profess the Christian religion! Let those who have been accustomed unjustly to
wage private warfare against the faithful now go against the infidels and end with victory this war which should have been begun long ago. Let those who for a
long time, have been robbers, now become knights. Let those who have been fighting against their brothers and relatives now fight in a proper way against the barbarians. Let those who have been serving as mercenaries for small pay now obtain the eternal reward. Let those who have been wearing themselves out in both body and soul now work for a double honor. Behold! on this side will be the sorrowful and poor, on that, the rich; on this side, the enemies of the Lord, on that, his friends. Let those who go not put off the journey, but rent their
lands and collect money for their expenses; and as soon as winter is over and spring comes, let them eagerly set out on the way with God as their guide."
# posted by 
: 11:19 AM
: 11:19 AM
"mindless zealots . . . in search of nirvana" We're fighting militant Buddhists now? When did that happen?
Wow. That letter was too contradictory and too myopic to even get me riled up.
I'm surprised that the letter writer didn't exclude Muslim US soldiers from the category of people willing to die for the US.
Wow. That letter was too contradictory and too myopic to even get me riled up.
I'm surprised that the letter writer didn't exclude Muslim US soldiers from the category of people willing to die for the US.
# posted by : 11:23 AM
: 11:23 AM
GP - I attend a university that has the gall to have a Crusader as its mascot. They don't see anything wrong with it and dismiss every call to change it. Gives me fits.
# posted by : 11:26 AM
: 11:26 AM 
The operational phrase here is, "I don't care!"
We reap what we sow. As Hosea said of Israel if you....sow the wind
you will reap the whirlwind.
"I don't Care!" is a curse upon one's self, family. community, country.
Evil for evil equals evil never ending.
We reap what we sow. As Hosea said of Israel if you....sow the wind
you will reap the whirlwind.
"I don't Care!" is a curse upon one's self, family. community, country.
Evil for evil equals evil never ending.
Ignorance isn't bliss. It's just ignorance. All one can do with a load of soggy crap like this is sigh and move on.
I don't agree with everything in this rant, and I sure don't condone the "hazing" as she calls it and needless destruction of the Koran, etc. Bush has been a failure. But I share the overall premise of being tired of being politcally correct about a bunch of people who make no such effort themselves. We are at war with radical Islam; they declared it.
-SLL
-SLL
# posted by : 3:09 PM
: 3:09 PM
It would be just sad, if it wasn't such a shared sentiment among so many Americans.
Fact Check:
American Death Rates per 100,000 engaged per year:
U.S. Military in Iraq: 60.2
Commercial Fisherman: 141.7
Pilots and Flight Engineers: 87.8
Loggers: 82.0
Structural Iron and Steel Workers: 61.0
Refuse Collectors: 41.0
Sources: Pentagon and Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Crazy isn't it? It takes nothing away from our warriors, but maybe tells us something about our laxidasical attitude towards other's safety.
What would your writter say if you told her a higher proportion of people die to support her tuna salid than her freedom? Dang wierd, I'd say.
Fact Check:
American Death Rates per 100,000 engaged per year:
U.S. Military in Iraq: 60.2
Commercial Fisherman: 141.7
Pilots and Flight Engineers: 87.8
Loggers: 82.0
Structural Iron and Steel Workers: 61.0
Refuse Collectors: 41.0
Sources: Pentagon and Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Crazy isn't it? It takes nothing away from our warriors, but maybe tells us something about our laxidasical attitude towards other's safety.
What would your writter say if you told her a higher proportion of people die to support her tuna salid than her freedom? Dang wierd, I'd say.
Re, "We are at war with radical Islam; they declared it."
There's nothing PC about keeping facts straight. The ranter is a moron.
Therre's no "they" there. The only "they" are the ones who spouted off. Shoot 'em down.
But it's not the Axis, it's not Japan, it's not the USSR.
It's not a damn war at all. It's crime fighting! The FBI finally whacked the Klan to bits, for the most part, ih the '60s and '70s, how? Not by calling it a war, but with a high level of crime-fighting.
That's what we're into now. Calling it a war totally mischaracterizes it, and get's the notion of fricking patriotism involved, which HARMS the cause.
There's nothing PC about keeping facts straight. The ranter is a moron.
Therre's no "they" there. The only "they" are the ones who spouted off. Shoot 'em down.
But it's not the Axis, it's not Japan, it's not the USSR.
It's not a damn war at all. It's crime fighting! The FBI finally whacked the Klan to bits, for the most part, ih the '60s and '70s, how? Not by calling it a war, but with a high level of crime-fighting.
That's what we're into now. Calling it a war totally mischaracterizes it, and get's the notion of fricking patriotism involved, which HARMS the cause.
One more thing of upmost importance:
We don't just ask these Americans to be willing to die for us. That's bad enough, no we ask them to kill for us. As far as I know there are no statistics of kill rates per 100,000 engaged. I have no doubt, based on past wars that the rate would be somewhere in the area of 600 to 1500 per 100,000 combatants engaged, or ten to twentyfive times the American death rate. Now that's what we are asking our people to do and live with. Not to die, but to kill.
We don't just ask these Americans to be willing to die for us. That's bad enough, no we ask them to kill for us. As far as I know there are no statistics of kill rates per 100,000 engaged. I have no doubt, based on past wars that the rate would be somewhere in the area of 600 to 1500 per 100,000 combatants engaged, or ten to twentyfive times the American death rate. Now that's what we are asking our people to do and live with. Not to die, but to kill.
Dr., I'm perplexed by your logic. A person who is killed on the job fishing, collecting trash, etc., is entirely different than soldiers going to Iraq. Can I prove this? Sure, no problem. I'll give you a choice - you can either go work off the Puget Sound fishing, or you can patrol the streets of Sadar City for pipebombs.
If all things are equal, than I guess you're ok either way, right?
- sll (a disillusioned Republican entering into a Democratic pond)
If all things are equal, than I guess you're ok either way, right?
- sll (a disillusioned Republican entering into a Democratic pond)
# posted by : 3:29 PM
: 3:29 PM
Apology accepted. I prefer to just hit the delete button on such tripe. I believe that any opinion given from a perspective of hatred should not be valued, whether one agrees with the points or not.
ER - yup, it's crime fighting. I know, I'm married to one of the "police." He's not there now.
DrLobojo - Thank you for acknowledging that we are sending some of our own to kill for us. It's a huge burden, and all return forever changed.
DrLobojo - Thank you for acknowledging that we are sending some of our own to kill for us. It's a huge burden, and all return forever changed.
# posted by : 10:39 PM
: 10:39 PM
Thanks, "I said". What he will bring back can be treated, mitigated, but when they tell you it will go away in time, that's B.S.. It pops up at the damnedest places. Good news, I'm still married to the same wife I was married to before I went to Nam. it can be done.
SLL, don't be perplexed, dead is dead. There ain't no shades of gray to it. You are two and a half more times likely to die on a fishing boat than as U.S. Military person in Iraq.
As I said in the cross over post at the same time you wrote, it ain't the dying that screws most of these guys and gals up.
By the way I was in the "Regular Army" in Nam, meaning I volunteered to walk the walk, risk the dying, and to do the killing. Done already made my choice and reaped the results.
If you had been analytical enough to tell me that the real dying in Iraq goes on in squad size units of Combant Infantry or Marines that are about the same size as a fishing boat crew and that using that metric might make a big difference in the stats, then I would agree with you. That's the real statistical argument against these numbers.
And SLL, as a "...a disillusioned Republican entering into a Democratic pond." Keep your distain and character judgements down to a minimum until you know the players in the this frog bottom bog, er, blog, then gig us.
SLL, don't be perplexed, dead is dead. There ain't no shades of gray to it. You are two and a half more times likely to die on a fishing boat than as U.S. Military person in Iraq.
As I said in the cross over post at the same time you wrote, it ain't the dying that screws most of these guys and gals up.
By the way I was in the "Regular Army" in Nam, meaning I volunteered to walk the walk, risk the dying, and to do the killing. Done already made my choice and reaped the results.
If you had been analytical enough to tell me that the real dying in Iraq goes on in squad size units of Combant Infantry or Marines that are about the same size as a fishing boat crew and that using that metric might make a big difference in the stats, then I would agree with you. That's the real statistical argument against these numbers.
And SLL, as a "...a disillusioned Republican entering into a Democratic pond." Keep your distain and character judgements down to a minimum until you know the players in the this frog bottom bog, er, blog, then gig us.
A very dear friend of mine, a golfin' buddy who is 20 years my senior, sends this "kind" of stuff all the time, though he's not sent anything this over-the-top.
With this election season, I'm inundated with "crap" he's been sending, which are just forwards from other ultra-concervatives. His commentary sources seem to come from that segment of southwest Kansas that attempted to secede from the state a decade and a half ago, so you get an idea of the dribble I've received.
I hesitate to respond, mostly just hitting the delete button every morning when I get gobs of things from my friend. But there are some ultra-concervative "truths" that come my way that get a response.
What I've realized is that no matter what I respond with, I'm not going to change my friend's view on the world, and his forwards aren't going to change mine. No matter our takes, he will always be a dear friend.
But there are times when I wish he'd remove my identity from his "undisclosed recipient" list and just forward me the jokes about golf and blondes and golfing blondes that make me giggle.
With this election season, I'm inundated with "crap" he's been sending, which are just forwards from other ultra-concervatives. His commentary sources seem to come from that segment of southwest Kansas that attempted to secede from the state a decade and a half ago, so you get an idea of the dribble I've received.
I hesitate to respond, mostly just hitting the delete button every morning when I get gobs of things from my friend. But there are some ultra-concervative "truths" that come my way that get a response.
What I've realized is that no matter what I respond with, I'm not going to change my friend's view on the world, and his forwards aren't going to change mine. No matter our takes, he will always be a dear friend.
But there are times when I wish he'd remove my identity from his "undisclosed recipient" list and just forward me the jokes about golf and blondes and golfing blondes that make me giggle.
Dr., I've been a long time reader of this blog, though I've posted only a handful of times. I respect you, I've enjoyed your comments, but I disagree with some of the discussion. Now, if my friend ER wants the board comments to be strictly for those following a liberal idiology, and that it not welcome a rare conservative voice to the fold, I'm ok w/ that.
But consider this: true conservatives, real Reagan conservatives are just as disgusted with Bush and how he's made this mess as are the liberals.
Libertarians, religious fundamentalists, John Birchers and corporate titans have seized control of the Republican party and crashed it into the ground.
But I'm not going to subscribe to the idea that the world is a utopian place if only the U.S. would bring its troops home and leave everybody alone.
The U.S. didn't start the genocide in Yugoslavia, the U.S. didn't provoke the 9/11 attacks, the U.S. didn't create chaos in Somalia (though we did make it worse).
The U.S. is guilty of empowering a dictatorship in China and other fun stuff.
ER, if you think I'm out of line here, if you think I'm being disrespectful, just give me the word and I'll go back to just being a loyal reader.
Now, because I know Dr. enjoys it so much, can you please repost the Redneck Star Wars video?
:)
-sll
But consider this: true conservatives, real Reagan conservatives are just as disgusted with Bush and how he's made this mess as are the liberals.
Libertarians, religious fundamentalists, John Birchers and corporate titans have seized control of the Republican party and crashed it into the ground.
But I'm not going to subscribe to the idea that the world is a utopian place if only the U.S. would bring its troops home and leave everybody alone.
The U.S. didn't start the genocide in Yugoslavia, the U.S. didn't provoke the 9/11 attacks, the U.S. didn't create chaos in Somalia (though we did make it worse).
The U.S. is guilty of empowering a dictatorship in China and other fun stuff.
ER, if you think I'm out of line here, if you think I'm being disrespectful, just give me the word and I'll go back to just being a loyal reader.
Now, because I know Dr. enjoys it so much, can you please repost the Redneck Star Wars video?
:)
-sll
# posted by : 11:11 AM
: 11:11 AM
Re, "if my friend ER wants the board comments to be strictly for those following a liberal idiology ..."
Give. Me. A. Break. Anybody with the balls to hang at the ER Roadhouse is welcome. But just always remember: Bring your balls.
But, it isn't that your voice is conservative (partly because it's not as conservative as you make it out to be) that irks; it's that what you said was crap (which is another way of saying "I disagree").
Crap 1: "We are at war with radical Islam; they declared it." BS. The only way this is a war is if you have totally redefined "war." (Talking about the alleged and mythical GWOT, BTW. There IS a smart war, sorely neglected, in Afghanistan, and there IS a foolish war in Iraq. There IS no GWOT.)
Crap 2: That American lives are being spent in a stupid, foolish war in Iraq, built on one damned lie after another -- and I don't care that it's a volunteer military. It's wrong.
Crap 3: I think your cavalier attitude toward the deaths sort of set the tone for the response.
On "conservative" -- there was NOTHING conservative about rushing off to war in Iraq. And there is nothing liberal about anguishing over the waste of life and treasure.
I was an anti-Republican way before the Iraq misadventure, BTW. But, except for a a couple of wacky years when the sheer lunacy of politics in this country made me crazy, I've always been a conservative Dem. But a Dem first. Make that anti-Republican first. Based on Reagan-era and post-Reagan orientation of both parties.
Give. Me. A. Break. Anybody with the balls to hang at the ER Roadhouse is welcome. But just always remember: Bring your balls.
But, it isn't that your voice is conservative (partly because it's not as conservative as you make it out to be) that irks; it's that what you said was crap (which is another way of saying "I disagree").
Crap 1: "We are at war with radical Islam; they declared it." BS. The only way this is a war is if you have totally redefined "war." (Talking about the alleged and mythical GWOT, BTW. There IS a smart war, sorely neglected, in Afghanistan, and there IS a foolish war in Iraq. There IS no GWOT.)
Crap 2: That American lives are being spent in a stupid, foolish war in Iraq, built on one damned lie after another -- and I don't care that it's a volunteer military. It's wrong.
Crap 3: I think your cavalier attitude toward the deaths sort of set the tone for the response.
On "conservative" -- there was NOTHING conservative about rushing off to war in Iraq. And there is nothing liberal about anguishing over the waste of life and treasure.
I was an anti-Republican way before the Iraq misadventure, BTW. But, except for a a couple of wacky years when the sheer lunacy of politics in this country made me crazy, I've always been a conservative Dem. But a Dem first. Make that anti-Republican first. Based on Reagan-era and post-Reagan orientation of both parties.
OK. Let's put into perspective, shall we? When the Klan sought to repress, kill and revive the enslavement of blacks, was that not a war against the black race? And when the Germans sought to exterminate the Jews, was that not also a war?
I'm not making up the goals of radical Islam - they are very well expressed, publicized and documented - radical Islam seeks to convert or eliminate those who don't follow their beliefs.
And they've shown a blood thurst for doing so - unless you consider the previous histories to be something other than a "war," how is this any different?
And if you don't those previous sad moments in history were acts of war against groups of people, well then, I guess we disagree.
As for a cavelier attitude against the troop. Bullhockey. I have friends in Iraq right now, even though I don't talk about it. I've had a friend killed in Afganistan.
As for what makes a person a Republican or a conservative, well, by today's "bridge to nowhere" standards, I guess I'm not either. But I'm sure not Democrat or liberal. And I loathe libertarianism.
-sll
I'm not making up the goals of radical Islam - they are very well expressed, publicized and documented - radical Islam seeks to convert or eliminate those who don't follow their beliefs.
And they've shown a blood thurst for doing so - unless you consider the previous histories to be something other than a "war," how is this any different?
And if you don't those previous sad moments in history were acts of war against groups of people, well then, I guess we disagree.
As for a cavelier attitude against the troop. Bullhockey. I have friends in Iraq right now, even though I don't talk about it. I've had a friend killed in Afganistan.
As for what makes a person a Republican or a conservative, well, by today's "bridge to nowhere" standards, I guess I'm not either. But I'm sure not Democrat or liberal. And I loathe libertarianism.
-sll
# posted by : 3:22 PM
: 3:22 PM
SLL said:"Now, because I know Dr. enjoys it so much, can you please repost the Redneck Star Wars video?"
You are a cruel and mean person you are. ;)
ER let's all us cats dump in this sandbox, he loves the smell of it.
I notice that he is happily engaging with you already.
By the way I'm the President of the American John Spruce Society, and I voted for Goldwater. Even had a Goldwater sticker on my 1950 GMC truck in college: AU-H2O. Life is never simple.
You are a cruel and mean person you are. ;)
ER let's all us cats dump in this sandbox, he loves the smell of it.
I notice that he is happily engaging with you already.
By the way I'm the President of the American John Spruce Society, and I voted for Goldwater. Even had a Goldwater sticker on my 1950 GMC truck in college: AU-H2O. Life is never simple.
Actually, no SLL, thr Klan was not at war with blacks. The Klan was out to TERRORIZE blacks, and killed some, too. And the Klan was whipped by law enforcemen, NOT soldiers. And that's exactly what we have now: radicals who want to TERRORIZE us and the rest of the West, and kill some while they're at it. And the way we will defeat them is by investigation and global CRIME-FIGHTING. Admittedly, we can use more blunt force in foreign countries than the FBI did in the U.S. because that pesky Bill of Rights isn't in the way. And, just as the soldiers were trotted out in Little Rock, there is a role -- a much bigger role -- for the military in combating radical Islamic terrorists. But to call it a "war" creates false ideas about "victory" and "defeat" in our own populace, pumps UP our damned enemies because we appear to be meeting them on THEIR terms ("they declared it), and misses the main point of successfully battling terrorism, which is to PREVENT it, not to punish it after the damned fact, which is what soliders are for: fighting and killing and destroying stuff, not preventing JACK.
Look. I work with words for a living. They are important. And "war" is not a good word for what it will take to beat back and whip the global Ku Klux Klan that is radical Islamic terrorism.
Post a Comment
Look. I work with words for a living. They are important. And "war" is not a good word for what it will take to beat back and whip the global Ku Klux Klan that is radical Islamic terrorism.
<< Home
