Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

So, ER, just what is "The" black church then? Is there "The" white church as well? What is it?
 

Um, I don't want you to have another stroke and quit blogging for a month.

There is a black church exdperience, urban and rural varieties, as much as there is a Southern church experience, a New England strain ... UK traditions ... Asian Baptist congregations, etc.


Specifically, from Jeremiah Wright's own hand, and I present it here without comment!

• The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.

• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.

• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.

• These scholars, who write in various disciplines, also include seminary presidents like Dr. John Kinney and professors of Hebrew Bible, like Dr. Jerome Ross. Black liberation theology defines Africans and African Americans as subjects – not the objects which colonizers and oppressors have consistently defined “others” as.

• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.

• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.
 

Then there's this.


United Church of Christ Statement of Faith in the form of a doxology

We believe in you, O God, Eternal Spirit, God of our Savior Jesus Christ and our God, and to your deeds we testify: You call the worlds into being, create persons in your own image,and set before each one the ways of life and death. You seek in holy love to save all people from aimlessness and sin. You judge people and nations by your righteous will declared through prophets and apostles. In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Savior, you have come to us and shared our common lot, conquering sin and death and reconciling the world to yourself. You bestow upon us your Holy Spirit, creating and renewing the church of Jesus Christ, binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races. You call us into your church to accept the cost and joy of discipleship, to be your servants in the service of others, to proclaim the gospel to all the world and resist the powers of evil,to share in Christ's baptism and eat at his table, to join him in his passion and victory. You promise to all who trust you forgiveness of sins and fullness of grace, courage in the struggle for justice and peace, your presence in trial and rejoicing, and eternal life in your realm which has no end. Blessing and honor, glory and power be unto you. Amen.

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.
 

I'll try not to run and hide.

Are you saying all black churches follow these tenants? Are you saying that black liberation theology is central to the majority of black churches?

What do you see this statement, you quoted, as meaning, with reference to the black church: "Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization...."?
 

Clearly there is a "black church" experience. Just as nyone who is a member of the mainline knows that there is also an "asian church" experience. The Korean churches in the PCUSA, for example, have a particular and important place in our denomination.

To ignore that is just naive. That doesn't mean that they're all the same, any more than all white churches are the same. But, many of those churches have make significant and important contributions to our communion that should not be ignored.
 

I see it as similar to my own assertion that I remain true, and will remain true, to what I consider the basic ideas surrounding what it means to be Southern, even as I make my way in the wider world of people with different socio-cultural origins.

I sense that you want the brotherhood of man to stem from our sameness, when I want to see the brotherhood of man improve despite our differences.
 

I mean, I am am a Southerner, and I remain true to the best of the traditions of the Soutland, my motherland, the cradle of the American experience. I would be a cultural supremacist if I denied others their like concepts of their own origins.
 

Experience? I'll give you that. There IS a black church experience, just as there's an Asian experience. But there is not a Black Church or an Asian Church. The congregations may be filled with Blacks and Asians, but the Church established by Jesus Christ is not identified by a color. There is only one church. It is neither black nor white. And it goes by no denominational name. ONE body, MANY members. Color and Ethnicity are irrelevant.

Black Liberation Theology is not "the Gospel." It is dogma. Divisive dogma at that.
 

"I would be a cultural supremacist if I denied others their like concepts of their own origins."

And you've changed your focus. You said initially...

"Some people say there's no such thing as "the black church." Some people are wrong. They are ignorant of history and blind to reality. And some are supremacists of one kind or the other."

But with your most recent statement you change the argument from "the Black church" to "the black/southern cultural experience."

What specifically are you arguing here? Your initial statement? Or your most recent? Just so you know, they are not the same. And theologically speaking there IS no such thing as a black church, OR a white church for that matter. There is only "THE" church. And it is not racist to point this out.
 

Divisive dogma?? And your precious diepensationalist whatever-millenialist crap is not?? Please clarify: Are you being pot or kettle?

Pfffffthhhh.
 

Pft. You are the one turning this into a discussion of theology. Not me. Not Wright. Not anyone else.

You don't even know what the term "the black church" means. Do some actual homework, and think some.

It wouldn't matter matter what Obama said at this point; you'd condemn it for the sake of politics.
 

Well anyway. I hate to see something with as much impact as this video become the focus of another petty fight.

I'm glad I got home and finally had a chance to watch this. It was extremely uplifting no matter what color any of us are.

Interesting point about the black keys. I have studied piano since I was a tiny child -- worked hard at it for at least the past 45 years. My brother, who was mentally retarded, would hear me practice. Then to my extreme frustration he would sit and play the melodies of the songs I was working on. But he only played on the black keys.

He couldn't read -- not language, not music. But his soul was filled with the same pentatonic scale known as the slave scale and he made endless hours of music just on the black notes.
 

It's a beautiful video. I would be shamed to me knees if it bounced off of my calloused heart!
 

BTW, almost the entire "CHIPS"" theme song can be played on the black keys alone. True fact.
 

ER quoted Reverend Wright: "Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora."

And he pointed this one out as well: "Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization."

Yes the Black Liberation Theology has been around for 40 years and grew out of the riots, and turmoil of the early 1960 just as Malcom X and thus the Black Muslims, the Black Panthers, and the Symbionese Liberation Army did.

Black Liberation Theology (BLT) is not "mainstream" black church theology today. Yes, it has been the focus of the African diaspora for over 400 years because the tenants of BLT are very much embedded in the Orisha Theology of the slaves who brought from Africa to the Americas.

It is a theology that focuses on the well being of the individual and petitioning God through his Orisha (think angels or Greek gods as a corollary) to provide that well being by focusing the Orisha's power to achieve it.
This is done through ceremony, devotion, offerings, and sacrifices. Outside of the United States, where the Catholic Church was prevalent, this basic and very ancient African theology and its Orishas were syncretized with the Catholic Saints (see Santeria for the Caribbean and Cuban area example). Thus the slaves of the African diaspora was able to rather openly practice their old religion within the context of Catholicism in these areas. In the United States the numbers of slaves were smaller per agricultural unit and much more closely supervised. Worse than that, most slave owners here were Protestant so the subterfuge of hiding behind the Saints was not available, so the practitioners of their religion had to go underground and be very secretive about it. Thus the Southern whites were even more concerned and afraid of it (it was referred to as VooDoo in the U.S. and Haiti). After all it had been used a bases for the successful slave revolution in Haiti.
Reverend Wright , among other BLT ministers, have been openly accused of reviving this African theology within the context of the BLT. You may have missed the element in his speech from Monday when he went out of his way to deny that he was a practitioner of this African religion. He said that he was not Obama's spiritual mentor, I'm a pastor he said, not a spiritual mentor like some VooDoo priest. What's that? He claims the BLT runs through 400 years of the Orisha based worship but goes out of his way to then make sure he has disassociated himself from it.

As a totally wierd aside, fans of the TV series SG-1 might notice that the Ori-sha were the model for the Ori in the final years of the series.

Sources on the web say that here are 6,500 black churches in the U.S.. I would venture a guess that only a small percentage of them preach BLT. Perhaps maybe about the same percentage as the white churches that teach Liberation Theology. I could be wrong. Am I?
 

Just for the record and fairness the NYT transcript of the speech Monday has him saying "guru" where I heard "Voodoo".

From the NYT Transcript:
"REVEREND WRIGHT: The governmental leaders, those -- as I said to Barack Obama, my member -- I am a pastor, he's a member. I'm not a spiritual mentor, guru. I'm his pastor."
 

At a guess - and it's just a guess - I'd say that most of those predominantly black churches do not self-identify specifically as BLT adherents.

To make a second guess - and it's still a guess, albeit one based on some familiarity with the "black church" - I'd suppose that many are sympathetic or at least not hostile towards BLT adherents.

As opposed to predominantly white churches. In my experience, most aren't even especially familiar with Liberation Theology and when they find out about it (usually because some believer has told them it's "communism!!!"), they are hostile towards it.

Some guesses based on my experiences, for what it's worth. I'm not sure if there's any way of proving it one way or t'other.
 

And yes, drlobo, there most certainly IS a white church.

Or "white church experience," if you prefer.

Eric is correct in at least one sense, that there is truly only one church - the church universal.

But in everyday experience, we can fairly easily and logically divide our churches into types.
 

Re, "many are sympathetic or at least not hostile towards BLT adherents"

I think I'd agree with that. Sort of in the same way white evangelicals tend to quietly leave unopposed the extremes of their own experience, i.e., Pat Robertson and Donald Wildmon, et al.
 

Re, "It is a theology that focuses on the well being of the individual and petitioning God through his Orisha (think angels or Greek gods as a corollary) to provide that well being by focusing the Orisha's power to achieve it. This is done through ceremony, devotion, offerings, and sacrifices."

How is this different from smells and bells and the overt discussion in some high-church circles of the ancestors in our faith and the great cloud of witnesses mentioned in Hebrews? It's not. Although I don't know about the "sacrifices" part.
 

There are few things guaranteed to pull me out of retirement than a discussion like this.

First, as a general note, while it is perhaps true that most historically black churches are not overt adherents to a systematic theology of black liberation, this does not make such theology irrelevant. Most churches are ignorant of most detailed theological musings, so this isn't a criticism of the black church so much as it is the reality of most churches.

Second, ELAshley is right that Black Theology isn't the gospel. No theology is the gospel. Theology is critical reflection on the Christian life, in light of the Scriptures. Whether it's Augustine, St. Thomas, Cavlin, or James Cone - most of it is wrong for most people and is limited to certain times, places, and communities.

ELAshley is also correct that Black Theology is divisive; all theology is divisive at some point. Growing out of the reality of the racial divide in this country, and the awareness of the role of power in creating discourses that exclude - in the church and without - Cone sought to articulate an understanding of the Gospel from the perspective of an historically oppressed people. That some people reacted angrily, even violently, to it (in the Forward to the 20th anniversary edition, Cone notes Andrew Greeley's comment that such was "Nazi theology"; he does so by the way in a wry way) says more about those who are reacting than the author of the theology.

I have read Cone, and Hopkins, and read and studied under Cone protege and student of African and Pa-African Theology Josiah Young and this was the first time I ever heard of Orishas, drlobojo, so I'm just wondering where that came from.

Finally, there is nothing bad or wrong or un-Christian about the confessional statements of Trinity UCC, or the professed theology of Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The reaction to him and the church he once pastored says far more about the ignorance and narrow-mindedness and, yes, racism, of those who are reacting to it than anything else.
 

Point of order.

What you are discussing is the AMERICAN black (white/asian/etc) church experience.

The black church experience elsewhere in the world is completely different.
 

Hear! Hear!
 

"The reaction to him and the church he once pastored says far more about the ignorance and narrow-mindedness and, yes, racism, of those who are reacting to it than anything else."

I'm a bit confused on this point...Does that mean that )following logic) Obama is ignorant and narrow-minded (and racist?) for his reaction? I found it encouraging that he has declared "outrage" at Rev. Wright's statements.
 

"I want to see the brotherhood of man improve despite our differences."

It is in music (and message) like this that not only do we improve in spite of our differences, I think we can celebrate them. Thanks for the inspiration.
 

GKS said: "I have read Cone, and Hopkins, and read and studied under Cone protege and student of African and Pa-African Theology Josiah Young and this was the first time I ever heard of Orishas, drlobojo, so I'm just wondering where that came from."

Orisha (a.k.a. loa) originate in African and can be found where ever the African diaspora is today.
Of course, that's not what you ment. You never saw it mentioned by name in these cited text so how can it be attributed to BLT as such. The answer is by Wrights definition of what his church means citing the 400 years of African beliefs etc..

GKS also said: "The reaction to him and the church he once pastored says far more about the ignorance and narrow-mindedness and, yes, racism, of those who are reacting to it than anything else."

Does that include the black church pastors who have paraded across the cable networks condeming his view point? And of course as Doc points out, Obama and his wife as well?

ER said: "How is this different from smells and bells and the overt discussion in some high-church circles of the ancestors in our faith and the great cloud of witnesses mentioned in Hebrews? It's not."

Well it is different in that it is done with a lot more good music, food, drink and dance and probably a lot more faith. It also pre-dates the other by a couple or three thousand years.

Also: "Although I don't know about the "sacrifices" part."

The Orisha/Loa based sacrifices once were very serious in that they were human. Generally captured warriors from "other" tribes or groups. But like the judeo-christian practices "substitution" was and is allowed and of course now is the norm. Generally today they are doves, roosters, goats, or sheep as examples.
 

Too much to hope that maybe, MAYBE just for once it could just be about the music.
 

Well Trixie, it is in its way about the music. The West Africans that bought over their religion brought over there music. In the U.S. the religion was declared illegal and suppress and to a large extent the music with it. But both came out at night in the cabins, in secret in the Hush Arbors, and daily in the fields. Then the unknown composers let the world see their spirituals, and their blues, and their jazz. I always smile when I see someone declare such and such a physical location as the birthplace of the Blues, or of Jazz. Their home is far away on the shores of rivers we have never seen. The black slave music seeped out from it repression as did the religion itself. The Southern white churches would be a much different brand except for the influence of their slaves' religions. It is that different scale of vibration that was imported on those slave ships that has added so much to all our souls.
And what I admire the most is that the "Race Music" as it was termed, gave us "ROCK N' Roll"!
So in a way, the Orisha are the gods of Rock n' Roll. I kind of like that symmetry.
 

If anyone is actually interestes in reading about these "unknown" black influences try this online publication:
Varieties of African American Religious Experience - Google Books Resultby Anthony B. Pinn - 1998 - Social Science - 256 pages
It is likely that these not-so-secret meetings are the hush arbors thought of with respect to the early stages of black Christianity in the South. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0800629949...
 

First - to those (Doc and drlobojo) who point out that there are African-Americans who do not accept Black Theology as normative, and point to my use of the word racism, as if to say, "Aha! You're trying to say that some blacks are racist! You are trapped in a contradiction! Get out of that one!" Obviously, blacks can be racist against other blacks; the phenomenon is common among black cops. Why not among some black church folk? "Race" isn't a physical or biological fact, but a social construct, so I see no reason in the world why the idea that some black folk might be racist against blacks is in some manner, fashion, or form absurd.

As to the point that Black Theology is solely a product of the African-American experience, obviously. Whose else?

People get very overwrought whenever charges of racism get tossed around; it is almost as if I am accusing another of murder. Racism is as American as the Mississippi River, Iowa corn, and Manhattan clam chowder, and I can use the term quite freely because I know it flows through my own veins as well. Those who deny its presence are, I'm sorry to say, fooling themselves.
 

GKS, I dare say no one on this blog are fooling themselves about who or what the are. We may be ignorant about a few specifics but most of are dead certain about our central character, much as you seem to be.

I think you have drastically underestimate the power of the word "Racist".

In my world it is very much the equivalent of "murderer" and even more. My reaction to such a charge is visceral and mean. Yet, you throw it around like it was a term equivalent to chauvinism, or ethnocentrism, xenophobia, biased, etc.. or even like mom, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

In practice it really doesn't make a rat's ass what you think it means, only what your audience thinks it means.

So if you want to have a reasonable discourse or dialogue about race, especially with Southerners or minorities or me, be advised using the term racist will clear the room and terminate discussion.
Speaking for myself, well, I will take it as a personal insult regardless of intent.
 

So you take it personal. Sorry. Americans are racists. Period. We are a racist nation. Period. If that hurts your delicate sensibilities, well, I'm sure you'll find someone who will feel bad for you.

It might hurt your feelings to be told you are dying of cancer, or have Alzheimer's disease, too, but I think the doctor would tell you anyway.

This is why I quit this whole thing. You want dialogue? Fine. But you want it on your terms.

Sorry. I call it as I see it, and your reaction - it pisses me off when you say this - isn't really here nor there with me. Since I most definitely include myself in this diagnosis/indictment, it isn't as if I'm saying "you are a bunch of racists". I am most definitely saying "We" in the largest sense possible. We can't move forward on any discussion of race unless we get that up front. And I learned that from some African-American Christians who loved me anyway.

And I'm not even southern.

Lesson learned here, ladies and gents. I do believe my head is soft from so much banging against cinder block walls.
 

GKS said: "If that hurts your delicate sensibilities, well, I'm sure you'll find someone who will feel bad for you."

Now that I'm in my place,
did that feel good?
I confess that it was my mistake to place some sort of value on your opinion. That's what caused me to pursue this for as long as I did. My dumb. My bad.

GKS said: "So you take it personal. Sorry. Americans are racists. Period. We are a racist nation. Period."

That sounds rather final as a conclusion. I guess I have been waisting my time on this. Do you have plans to do anything about it yourself actually rather than just declaring America is racist and getting everyone to agree with you?

By the way you indeed have made it personal and that is why this time I made it clear what my reaction to that was. But for some, winning is everything.

GKS said on his blog regarding his perception of my pov: "I guess my position is this -I am most definitely telling you that you are wrong, racist, bigoted, narrow, or unenlightened."
Now GKS that is surely the way to influence people and win friends.

So I guess we truly have no need to interact on this any further.

Say, does anybody out there feel bad for me? Come on now! Please! Pretty Please! Dang, alone again.
 

You are quite pathetic. You want to have a dialogue on race relations, including the role of prophetic Black Theology in America, yet you don't want to be challenged on your own role in perpetuating our national past time of oppressing blacks. You want to point out how marginal Black Liberation Theology is to the life of "most Christians", yet you show very little knowledge of or understanding of its sources, its methods, and its conclusions. You bring up something - Orishas - of which I have never heard and insist it has to do with the subject at hand, even as I said that, as someone familiar with Black Theology up close and personal, I had never heard of it.

In point of fact I feel neither good nor bad about the specifics of the exchange. I simply offered a couple points, not directed at anyone in particular. You were the one who took it personally, which, once again, says far more about you than about anything I may have written.

I can call others racist because I am one. Freely admitted. I struggle with it constantly, and was embarrassed and saddened only a couple days ago by my own racist reaction to an individual.

I am not attacking anyone. I am not sitting around on some high mountaintop declaring others suffer from something to which I am immune. Rather, I feel a bit like Bob, one of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, sitting around and wondering why the other tosspots can't see what a wreck their lives are, and won't seek the support and help we are offering.

Finally, the fact that all this is clear to me, yet taken in the exact opposite sense by you (and others) only shows what a stupid idea it is to try and have any kind of serious discussion like this, here or anyone else. NONE OF THIS IS PERSONAL. This is a discussion about the reality we live in, the brokenness of our world, and our relationships, and the way this brokenness effects all of us. You have such an investment in being such a smart guy, such a know-it-all, you refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that you might just, like the rest of us 300 million Americans, might have a problem with people of color. You accuse me of feeling better, when in fact the entire exercise of your last comment was meant to make you look the aggrieved victim of a scurrilous attack by "the rudest person on the internet" (courtesy of ELAshley).

Understanding Black Theology might be an opportunity to see the world from the outside looking in, to hear the empty words of our creeds and our constitutions and our laws and know they do not apply to you. It might be an opportunity to take a look-see at the world from the bottom of the heap, and hear the words of the 23 Psalm mean something more than just comfort in death, but comfort in the struggle for true human living. You will have none of that, and want to toss all sorts of epithets at Jeremiah Wright and others without seeking out what it is they mean by what they say.

Is it any wonder why I gave this shit up?
 

This seems to be and old argument.
It also seems to be a difference in definition of terminology in the extremes. By Drlobojo's narrow definition of racist, I suspect there would be many who would not be defined as racist. To use Geoffrey's definition, all are included in that designation.
Assuming Geofrey's definition, and that "we can't move forward on any discussion of race unless we get that up front," one would hope that a such a discussion is for a purpose. That purpose would presumably be to lessen the amount, type, severity, etc. of racism that currently exists. If so, then there must be different degrees of racism; otherwise, there can be no improvement. I propose that therein lies the difference in definition of being racist (Drlobojo's definition) or RACIST (Geoffrey's).

(Or, perhaps, I am just placing a proboscis in an old feud, and will get it bitten twice)
 

No Doc, you got it about right.
No bitting from this quarter.

Trouble is GKS doesn't actually know me and simply has determined that my knowledge and experience has no value is this discusion. I fully understand where he is coming from as I understand where Reverend Wright is coming from.
GKS and others perhaps would consider that statement self serving bullshit, but what the hey.. I've spent the last 33 years dealing directly with institutional and legal segregation as violation of Civil Rights Compliance by State Government (sadly doing such even after "retirement"). GKS really has no beef with me, but rather what he thinks I represent. The teacher in me has taken this discussion far past the point I should have.

So here again playing at "educator":
As for the Orisha et. al.,an estimated 60,000,000 to a 100,000,000 followers in the Americas know who they are and worship through them. Most of those people are black to some degree. The Orisha are central to the history of black religion in the Americas. That's all.
 

More primary information; if anyone is interested in James Cone's own current statements about Black Liberation Theology and about the Black Church, I have posted two videos on my blog site you might like to see.
 

Re, "This is why I quit this whole thing. You want dialogue? Fine. But you want it on your terms."

Pot? Kettle?
 

""the rudest person on the internet" (courtesy of ELAshley)"

Okay, okay! You're not the rudest. But you are pretty damned rude, and by all indications you revel in it. You castigate Drlobojo for "[having] such an investment in being such a smart guy, such a know-it-all, ...refus[ing] to acknowledge..." !??

GAH!

Can you say "pot & kettle"?

The only thing to understand about Black Liberation Theology is that it is steeped in Marxism and has no relevance to the Faith handed down by Christ himself, and spread throughout the centuries by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. It is not even remotely "Christian".

I get a huge kick at reading all the grand pontificatin' that goes on over here. I disagree half as much with Drlobojo as I do with ER, but I at least try to be respectful... I lose my temper like anyone else, but you seem to be chronically afflicted by a burr of condescension 'neath the saddle of that very high horse you ride.

Now, as to the subject of this post... a lot of beautiful music comes from the pentatonic scale; West Africa has certainly contributed positively to this nations' culture. That being said, there is something seriously wrong with the "theology" Jeremiah Wright pounded into his congregation week after week, year after year. It's done more to perpetuate racial tension and division than it has to healing the same. If this is where Barack learned how to be "audaciously hopeful," this country is in serious trouble.

Apologies, ER, for being so contentious.
 

Yes, I like "Amazing Grace" too.
 

Don't make Me come down there.
 

Cool it Jehovahfats! Stay right where you are. I've got this one under control. Just keep sipping on those blood sacrifices and telling war stories about when you and Joshua were hot stuff. Don't come and get into my shit here.
 

I must admire your work. They really *are* easy to manipulate, aren't they? Ya gotta love 'em. ...

Well, I mean, *I* do.
 

Yeah, sure you love them, remember I was there at the Noah deal. I saw you in action there Jehov old boy. I saw how you loved them dang near into oblivion just cause I got the upper hand for just a little while. You are such a sore loser! Just how many time have you changed the rules of this game anyway?
 

I wouldn't exactly call deepening the water level of a reedy swamp "oblivion."

And there are no rules. That *is* how you get people tangled up, isn't it? Getting it into My people's heads that there *are* rules. And they all are My people.

You are a false shepherd with an imaginary rod and staff. Effective, however, I must admit.
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

ER, I think maybe you should limit your comment section to non-deities only. GKS and Neal excepted.
 

Hey, it's just now gettin' really interesting!


I think God just suggested there the Scripture writers might have gotten the Flood story and the parting of the "Red" Sea confused. Which would explain a lot. I mean if a reedy swamp could get turned into a Red Sea, a heavy dew might could be mistaken for a Deluge!
 

Blaspheme becomes you ER, you really should indulge yourself more often. But you must remember that He "inspired" what was written. It is not that the writers were wrong, but rather that their source of exageration was exagerating.
 

ER, would I be remiss if I observed that your blog is now attracting flies?
 

do what? i've blasphemed nada.

i've only knocked around an idol.
 

Hmm...you have both God and The Devil arguing here on your blog and you recently had tornadoes in your area.

Does the name Job ring a bell, ER? ;)
 

Ha! Sayong we have tornadoes around here at this time of year is like sayin' flowers bloom in the spring. We'd be worried if there wadn't tornadoes this time of year!
 

Actually I don't do tornadoes those are His along with earthquakes and hurricanes. I prefer climate change and health problems caused by stupidity. Random natural catastrophes are just tantrums that He throws when He feels neglected and wants a few prayer lifted up to Him. Me I like to savor the long term essence of true rot.
By the way I Am not the Devil. That's another myth that He started.
 

I sneeze and spawn tornados. I pass gas and there's an earthquake. That's why they're called "natural" disasters.

Sheesh. I'm only huma -- ah, ha ha ha.

A God can't get a break.
 

Wait a minute.

I started no myths. It was those kids of mine.

And they are all my kids.
 

Gawd, God! They ain't all your children. Like I said before, go away and leave my stuff alone.

Oh yes, and as for your devine drivel about,"...You are a false shepherd with an imaginary rod and staff."

First you are the one who likes sheep. All that wool keeps my flybabies from feeding. I prefer goats and pigs myself, and I don't lead them, I drive them mercerisly. And J. my staff and my rod exist. Show me yours, and don't send Moses with that a snake wrapped in twine shit. Where's your real ones?
 

Wait a minute, wait a minute, I asked for sympathy. Played my cards so you would feel bad, and all I get from ER and ELA is the catagory of "pot" or "kettle". Yes attack GKS... not put me in the same catagory...dang...
 

Pot-kettle barb directed at GKS only, from this quarter. Sorry to be confusing.
 

Beel-za-bubba said:

"And J. my staff and my rod exist. Show me yours, and don't send Moses with that a snake wrapped in twine shit. Where's your real ones?"


All staffs, rods, snakes and shit are mine.
 

Big "J" said: "All staffs, rods, snakes and shit are mine."

I guess you haven't been paying attention have you? Ever since you slandered the Serpent with those fables of the Garden of Eden he and his have long defected from you! As for the others, Cats have staffs and engines have rods, now don't tell me your claiming those Egyptian Deities, and NASCAR as part of your Kinngdom now?

Don't you have the results of your recent typhoon and earthquake to take care of? Why are you waisting time here?
 

All deities are mine, and some are glimpses of Me.

Wasting time? I have all the time in all the worlds I made, which are all the worlds.

I made time.

I made all heres, and all theres. I am present at all heres, and all theres, I am.
 

And the Big "J" said:
"I made time.
I made all heres, and all theres. I am present at all heres, and all theres, I am."

I knew all along this guy was just a head case.

OK, OK, It is time for your to go back into your room, take your medicine ,and go beddy bye. This is just too much excitement for one posting. Come on now, let me help you into your jompies. OK, let just adjust these straps in the back here. Now cross your arms. Let me buckle these. Now that's good. Get some rest now.

I didn't really think he was for real. Couldn't even spell I AM! correctly.
I've got be on my way now. Lot's and Lot's of clean up work to be done in Burma and China. My children are needed there. I must go to supervise.
Ah, and Lee, while I'm that half of the Globe, I may fly by and visit.
 

Did I say I was going to Buzz off now?