Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

See, this is exactly what I do not get about you. You seem to "get it" when we're talking about hate speech and hate actions against homosexuals -- now. I get that this is a relatively new life point of view for you in the time I've known you. I don't understand why then you don't see that the exact same types of speech, behavior and attitudes against groups of blacks has EXACTLY the same impact and result. Is it that your consciousness hasn't been raised yet in that area? I see such a split in your compassionate heart relative to these two issues.
 

Well, several thoughts come to mind.

If the same had been said of blacks, or any others -- worse than terrorists, that they were pedophiles, that they were societal cancers -- I'd be as indignant.

Homosexuals now are largely without any legal protection, as a class, at all. Blacks are not.

I have compassion, too, for people who still believe that homosexuals are nothing but sinners in need of correction -- but Kern went so far beyond that I can almost see a need for "hate speech" laws, but just "almost," as I said -- because I am a free-speech purist by default.

But I have compassion, also, for people who don't know any better, about any class or group of people, from either upbringing or ignorance -- that is, racists, and garden-variety homophobes.

So, my heart is splintered, not just split.

But, re, "Is it that your consciousness hasn't been raised yet in that area?" That could very well be the case.

And *that* could be because, despite my affinity for all things Southern, and despite my interest in the South, and its institutions, including the Confederacy, I don't think I have ever been a racist (by the grace of Christ), but I did once consider homosexuals as "less than" -- because of what I now consider a misunderstanding of sin.
 

I mean, I flirted with racism as a kid because I confused it with politics and regional pride.

But I inherited, and embraced, homophobia as part of my faith tradition itself.

Keep talking. I am not defending myself. I'll keep thinking.
 

Kern's speech has got NOTHIN' on the "speech" of Rev. Scott Lively and his book "The Pink Swastika" which claims that homosexuals were responsible for the Holocaust.

Some people blame his "speechifying" for inspiring a group of Latvian "christians" to gay bash a man to death.

I think that, in the end, it's OK for society to hold people accountable when their words are part of an organized attempt to incite, enable, or try to palliate outrage against a crime.

But it should be done advisedly. I think most sensible people who are against hate crime legislation are worried that it isn't done advisedly.

Of course, there are plenty of people who are against it because they WANT to be able to organize against other groups and they are afraid this will make it more difficult and dangerous.
 

Whoa.

I know, or at least am acquainted with, more gay people now than I know black people. That might have something to do with it.

I think I know more American Indians than I do gays, but maybe not.

Maybe I need to get to know a lesbian Christian "Corn Mother"-venerating Cherokee Freedman. :-)
 

Hidy, Teresa, mi amiga.

One difference is Lively spoke for himself and those who agree with him. Kern speaks for herself, and, in the eyes of the world, her constituency, which I am not a part, and the state of Oklahoma, of which I am.

Hey, I've stumbled across yer blog through other blogs. Mind if I link to it? If you don't, would you mind leaving the address in a comment, 'cause I can't remember where I stumbled across it.

(And if ya don't want to open the door from here to there, I understand. :-) I, myself, honestly do enjoy the engagement with fundies since I came from close to there, and I do learn something from it. They are increasingly fewer and farther between.)
 

Wow. OK, I'm not sure where Trixie's original comment came from, but this particular can of worms is quite, um, interesting indeed. An actual discussion of race!

Let's hope we can do it free from fear.
 

lesbian Christian "Corn Mother"-venerating Cherokee Freedman. I've got just the person for you to meet then!

Race is very much more an issue here where I am now than it was there where I was before. (You know wheres.) Only here it is definitely tribal vs. white issue. Only make that plural tribals. There's a lot of different tribes and thus a lot of different dynamics with one or another tribe accusing whites of favoring a different tribe. It happened just this week re: publicity over new casinos and one feeling slighted that they didn't get the same coverage as another tribe.

There's also a lot of anti-black and anti-gay and anti-developmentally challenged bigotry here. Basically anyone who has any difference.

What cracks me up is that the lesbians who run the spinning shop are smack-dab between the Christian bookstore and the ceramics shop. Heh. And their shop is also their residence. Heh, heh. They are good friends of mine and I get a kick out of my observations.

Anyway, I put all those kinds of bigotries into the same bag -- people feeling superior simply because of irrelevant differences between groups of people. The only "bigotry" I can seem to tolerate and support is bigotry against stupidity. And there's more than plenty of that all through the human condition!

Any time we disenfranchise or marginalize ANYONE, we do it to ourselves, you know. I'm sure you can recite that work that ends with "until there was no one to speak for me."
 

"Free from fear," I think, is too much to ask. "With courage" is the best we can hope for.

Trixie knows me, in some ways, 'cause she is a fellow Okrahoman. In this type of situation, familiarity breed contextual understanding. She challenges me from *there* with love. She is brandishing legitimate questions, not judgment -- and I love her for it. :-)
 

I'm so glad you understand that -- I kind of hoped everyone knew that but then I realize not everyone knows context. Glad you clarified that for "the peoples."
 

ER,

www.anomalousdata.com

Mostly, I just shoot my mouth off with whatever seems like a good idea at the time...so...anyone who doesn't mind that (and I'm guessing few here mind it) is welcome.

:-)
 

Teresa, re: "I just shoot my mouth off with whatever seems like a good idea at the time"

is not too far removed from:

""Praecipitatum verius quam editum" -- in my nameplate.

:-)
 

While I'm not real big on Gays and Lesbians,I hardly think theyr'e this big threat to the American Family!!!

Gee,I guess the economy;affordable health care and good schools are just minor nuisances compared to Gays and Lesbians!!!

Kinda reminds me of a recent episode of The Simpsons:Homer somehow managed to incapacitate the whole Springfield Fire Department!!

So,Homer;Barney;Apu;Carl;Lenny and Moe become Volunteer Firemen!!
Anyway,there's a scene where Kent Brockman's covering a news story about the Springfield FD's sudden incapacition and how it's affecting the town!!
He's talking to a man trapped in a burning and asks him what he thinks about the Fire Department being out of action,and the guy tells him"Well,Just Knowing That somewhere,Gays Are able To Marry
Bothers Me A Lot More than The Loss of Our Fire Department!!".
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

Damn the late shift at our mutual place of work, it kept me up too late to make it to church once again. That, and a general dread of Palm Sunday (I'm allergic to palm branches) and Holy Week (I'm also allergic to passion plays) left over from my Catholic upbringing probably contributed. Once again, you made me regret not attending.

I don't think most of us are racist, but then we often have the idea that a racist is a card-carrying member of the KKK. More insidious is privilege, which we all have. That's a conversation worth having sometime.

Didja see where Ellen DeGenerous tried to call Rep. Kern? Hi-larious!
 

Awww. I sure wish y'all would come to the non-early service. I always look for ya. :-)

20-some people joined. I was struck by how incredulous some of them looked. As if to say: "Y'all are actually letting ME join?" Wow. ...

And one man had something like a small smirk on his face, as if to say, "Y'all really don't know what you're doing. You don't know me."

To me, it was one of those mornings when Grace was a plain as smoke.

And if you don't usually, you HAVE to listen to the preachin' online. Wow.
 

The more I think about this, the more profound it seems (the thing itself, not the fact that I observed it):

And one man had something like a small smirk on his face, as if to say, "Y'all really don't know what you're doing. You don't know me."


I think it was a glimpse of a variation on the Main Theme: Any of us, if we're honest, fall prostrate at the prospect -- the mere prospect! -- of God and in incredulity cry out: "You don't know what You'e doing! You don't know me!"