Thursday, October 18, 2007
Another lie: 'Iran is a nuclear threat'
I suggest people not assume the president was deliberately raising the stakes vis-a-vis Iran with his off-the cuff remark yesterday about "World War III."
He doesn't have that much strategery in his thinking. He pulled that right out of his butt in response to a reporter's question. But today, he's probably thinking: "Hey! Campaign thing!"
Sure!
VOTE FOR MORE WAR.
VOTE FOR MORE LIES.
VOTE REPUBLICAN.
President Bush thinks that going to war is the best way to prevent war. Dust off your duct tape and plastic sheathing, y'all.
Iran doesn't NEED the bomb as things stand. Iran has more power in the feigned threat than it would have in the thing itself. If Iran had the thing itself and dared even pretend to use it, it would be turned into a big parking lot.
Like Iraq? You'll loooove Iran.
Iran is no nuclear threat. It's another lie.
--ER
He doesn't have that much strategery in his thinking. He pulled that right out of his butt in response to a reporter's question. But today, he's probably thinking: "Hey! Campaign thing!"
Sure!
VOTE FOR MORE WAR.
VOTE FOR MORE LIES.
VOTE REPUBLICAN.
President Bush thinks that going to war is the best way to prevent war. Dust off your duct tape and plastic sheathing, y'all.
Iran doesn't NEED the bomb as things stand. Iran has more power in the feigned threat than it would have in the thing itself. If Iran had the thing itself and dared even pretend to use it, it would be turned into a big parking lot.
Like Iraq? You'll loooove Iran.
Iran is no nuclear threat. It's another lie.
--ER
Comments:
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YOu do know he would prefer to see the Repubs return to power in Congress, right? Ylu do know he would prefer to lead that return to power, and to usher in a new Repub president, rather than see them all continue to run from him, right?
You called ME dense the other day, right? My turn, right?
You're so dense!
Right?
Then, you apologized. Me, too, I guess. Different wavelengths, as you say.
You called ME dense the other day, right? My turn, right?
You're so dense!
Right?
Then, you apologized. Me, too, I guess. Different wavelengths, as you say.
Well, he's not running ... yet. You're assuming he'll actually step down in the first place and not concoct some reason to ignore that part of the Constitution too. I mean, if you can get rid of habeas corpus, what CAN'T you get away with?
# posted by 
: 8:14 AM
: 8:14 AM
Anyone who thinks it's not possible is a moron. Seriously.
I thought there would never be an impeachment of a president in my lifetime. I don't mean I didn't think it would happen; I mean I thought it would not happen,
I thought the Berlin Wall was permanent. I thought the Soviet Union was permanent. I thought the lessons of Vietnam would last many generations. I thought the lessons of Watergate would last at last until my own generation had passed on. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongg. Almost every assumption I've had about politics, government and public affairs, all based on "the conventional wisdom," have been wrong.
Would Bush try to stay in power? If he thought he could justify it in the name of the phony "War on Terror, you're damn right he would.
... I thought "the world would be reached for Christ" by 2000 and the Rapture would have happened by now (see: "Bold Mission Thrust," global Southern Baptist mission effort, circa 1976, when i was 12; I believed!) ... I used to think Hal Lindsey was a prophet. ... I used to take Jack Chick tracts seriously. ... I used to think was God was white, spoke with a drawl, or at least with an Ozarkian accent, had blond hair and voted Democrat (early '70s-Democratic-"solid south"-upbringing). And God? I used to S/He was a male. ...
I thought there would never be an impeachment of a president in my lifetime. I don't mean I didn't think it would happen; I mean I thought it would not happen,
I thought the Berlin Wall was permanent. I thought the Soviet Union was permanent. I thought the lessons of Vietnam would last many generations. I thought the lessons of Watergate would last at last until my own generation had passed on. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongg. Almost every assumption I've had about politics, government and public affairs, all based on "the conventional wisdom," have been wrong.
Would Bush try to stay in power? If he thought he could justify it in the name of the phony "War on Terror, you're damn right he would.
... I thought "the world would be reached for Christ" by 2000 and the Rapture would have happened by now (see: "Bold Mission Thrust," global Southern Baptist mission effort, circa 1976, when i was 12; I believed!) ... I used to think Hal Lindsey was a prophet. ... I used to take Jack Chick tracts seriously. ... I used to think was God was white, spoke with a drawl, or at least with an Ozarkian accent, had blond hair and voted Democrat (early '70s-Democratic-"solid south"-upbringing). And God? I used to S/He was a male. ...
No worries. A Democrat will be the next President. There will be peace worldwide. No hungry, no sick people (free medical care), God will no longer see any sin, blessings will come down like rain because we elected a Democrat. Is that enough lies to think about for a while?
Another planet heard from in Mom2. Her post is what is known as a non-sequitur. The issue is the on-going war-mongering and lying of our current president in re Iran.
The easiest way to think about it is this - we lived with an expansive nuclear power called the Soviet Union for forty-five years. While it is true times were occasionally tense (and on a couple occasions we were mere minutes from world-wide disaster) - but, through sheer dumb luck we survived. Part of the reason we survived is some recognized the necessity of discussing our differences, negotiating limits, etc.
Now, Iran is nowhere near the status of the former Soviet Union. Our own generals have stated that they can live with a nuclear Iran. Now, it is true that military policy is run by civilians, except the current crop of idiots really has no idea what they are doing (I agree with your comment, ER, that Bush doesn't think far enough ahead for this to be some kind of strategic thing).
Would an nuclear Iran be dangerous? Quite a bit less than a nuclear India facing a nuclear Pakistan, say. Or a nuclear India facing a nuclear China. Or a nuclear China facing a nuclear Russia. Since the only evidence of Iranian bomb-lust comes from discredited sources - all the people who actually know what they're talking about insist Iran is pursuing civilian nuclear power - it seems to me this is just more fear-filled blood lust on the part of Bush & Co. Luckily, the US public seems to have learned the old lesson, "Fool me once shame on you . . ."
Hope you survived the storms that hit OK. I know Tulsa was hit worse.
The easiest way to think about it is this - we lived with an expansive nuclear power called the Soviet Union for forty-five years. While it is true times were occasionally tense (and on a couple occasions we were mere minutes from world-wide disaster) - but, through sheer dumb luck we survived. Part of the reason we survived is some recognized the necessity of discussing our differences, negotiating limits, etc.
Now, Iran is nowhere near the status of the former Soviet Union. Our own generals have stated that they can live with a nuclear Iran. Now, it is true that military policy is run by civilians, except the current crop of idiots really has no idea what they are doing (I agree with your comment, ER, that Bush doesn't think far enough ahead for this to be some kind of strategic thing).
Would an nuclear Iran be dangerous? Quite a bit less than a nuclear India facing a nuclear Pakistan, say. Or a nuclear India facing a nuclear China. Or a nuclear China facing a nuclear Russia. Since the only evidence of Iranian bomb-lust comes from discredited sources - all the people who actually know what they're talking about insist Iran is pursuing civilian nuclear power - it seems to me this is just more fear-filled blood lust on the part of Bush & Co. Luckily, the US public seems to have learned the old lesson, "Fool me once shame on you . . ."
Hope you survived the storms that hit OK. I know Tulsa was hit worse.
There are laws in place already that will allow Bush to retain his Presidency. Say thanks to Warner of Virginia for that one.
Would he do it? Sure he would. Would we let him? That is yet to be seen.
Is Iran a threat? Not much of one. But when you add in Israel, Syria, Russia, Pakistan, India, and all the other unstable players in the region our threats and messing could cause Bushe's fondest dreams to come true.
Mom2 which of the clowns on the Republican agenda would you want deciding if your kids go to war or not?
Would he do it? Sure he would. Would we let him? That is yet to be seen.
Is Iran a threat? Not much of one. But when you add in Israel, Syria, Russia, Pakistan, India, and all the other unstable players in the region our threats and messing could cause Bushe's fondest dreams to come true.
Mom2 which of the clowns on the Republican agenda would you want deciding if your kids go to war or not?
dr lobo, I will probably vote for Huckabee. We need someone that seeks to know Godly wisdom. Some here know that I am a former Democrat and could be again if they had any true moral direction or believed that God was relevant.
I will not belabor the point, but will mention here that Hillary is a lifelong Methodist, I believes, and Christ has to be the source of here strength vis-a-vis her husband.
Bill himself is a lifelong Southern Baptist whose faith had to have sustained him in the aftermath of his own very public transgression, when most of the country turned against him.
Jimmy Carter is a living example of what the Southern Baptist Convention was like before the literalist right-wingers started taking it over.
Barack Obama was converted to Christ as an adult and has been a member of a great United Church of Christ church ever since.
Sure, there are loonies "anti-God" people at the fringes of the Democratic Party. I'll gladly live with them rather than the greater evil manifested at the extremes of the Republican Party, although I acknowledge that people of good faith can see things diffently than I do.
But this ...
"... Democrat ... if they had any true moral direction or believed that God was relevant ..."
.. is just stupid. I mean, it's so stupid it makes my head hurt.
Bill himself is a lifelong Southern Baptist whose faith had to have sustained him in the aftermath of his own very public transgression, when most of the country turned against him.
Jimmy Carter is a living example of what the Southern Baptist Convention was like before the literalist right-wingers started taking it over.
Barack Obama was converted to Christ as an adult and has been a member of a great United Church of Christ church ever since.
Sure, there are loonies "anti-God" people at the fringes of the Democratic Party. I'll gladly live with them rather than the greater evil manifested at the extremes of the Republican Party, although I acknowledge that people of good faith can see things diffently than I do.
But this ...
"... Democrat ... if they had any true moral direction or believed that God was relevant ..."
.. is just stupid. I mean, it's so stupid it makes my head hurt.
mom2 writes, "if they had any true moral direction or believed that God was relevant."
ROFL. Pardon me, the idea of "Republicans" and "moral direction" just made coffee squirt out my nose.
Ah, moral direction? Like Larry (T-room queen) Craig? Mark (underage pages) Foley? Bob (T-room queen #2) Allen? David (soliciting a prostitute) Vitter? Rudy Giuliani? (married 3 times, once to his second cousin, whom he cheated on with his second wife. Then he cheated on his second wife with his third wife.) Fred Thompson? (Shotgun wedding to his first wife b/c she was already pregnant. She divorced him due to "cruel and inhuman treatment.") John McCain? (Divorced.) Mitt Romney? (Oh he believes God is relevant, just ask him about the Angel Moroni.)
ROFL. Pardon me, the idea of "Republicans" and "moral direction" just made coffee squirt out my nose.
Ah, moral direction? Like Larry (T-room queen) Craig? Mark (underage pages) Foley? Bob (T-room queen #2) Allen? David (soliciting a prostitute) Vitter? Rudy Giuliani? (married 3 times, once to his second cousin, whom he cheated on with his second wife. Then he cheated on his second wife with his third wife.) Fred Thompson? (Shotgun wedding to his first wife b/c she was already pregnant. She divorced him due to "cruel and inhuman treatment.") John McCain? (Divorced.) Mitt Romney? (Oh he believes God is relevant, just ask him about the Angel Moroni.)
# posted by : 11:57 AM
: 11:57 AM
Alan and ER did my job for me. Mom2, I just wonder - what in the world has all the support the Christian Right given to the Republican Party for over thirty years got them? Name a Democratic politician, just in the past year, who has been caught with his pants down. Name a Democratic politician in the past three years who has been convicted of bribery. Something tells me that soliciting sex from a man in an airport restroom doesn't exactly count as moral. Taking bribes doesn't exactly count as moral.
There isn't enough morality in the Republican Presidential candidates - "godly" or otherwise - to shake a feather at. Does this mean I think the Democrats are saints? Obviously not. I do not think that. I do not want a saint. I want a politician - a person with vision, spine, cunning, more than a bit of ruthlessness, with an eye first for the Constitution of the United States. To be honest, there really isn't anyone running for President in either major party that fits that bill perfectly.
you can kid yourself about Huckabee all you want, Mom2. Remember, though, that he is a politician, and he knows who butters the bread of the Republican Party.
As to drlobojo, that very scenario is quite scary. Does anyone doubt this crowd would use it, in the face of some cooked-up "threat" from Iran? These people have no decency. They have no morals. They are rotten to the core.
There isn't enough morality in the Republican Presidential candidates - "godly" or otherwise - to shake a feather at. Does this mean I think the Democrats are saints? Obviously not. I do not think that. I do not want a saint. I want a politician - a person with vision, spine, cunning, more than a bit of ruthlessness, with an eye first for the Constitution of the United States. To be honest, there really isn't anyone running for President in either major party that fits that bill perfectly.
you can kid yourself about Huckabee all you want, Mom2. Remember, though, that he is a politician, and he knows who butters the bread of the Republican Party.
As to drlobojo, that very scenario is quite scary. Does anyone doubt this crowd would use it, in the face of some cooked-up "threat" from Iran? These people have no decency. They have no morals. They are rotten to the core.
I don't think we have to worry about Bush taking the office again (and, by the way, he could do it legally - all he would have to do is admit that he didn't really win the first time around and then this would only be a second term...). But I don't think we need to worry about that.
I honestly think that Bush is tired of it all. "It's HARD WORK!" and all. I think he's ready to retire and have some firm pay him billions of dollars for being the ex-president and to give speeches. Since he does that so well.
I honestly think that Bush is tired of it all. "It's HARD WORK!" and all. I think he's ready to retire and have some firm pay him billions of dollars for being the ex-president and to give speeches. Since he does that so well.
Geoffrey for President! He does know every @#$%^&*% thing. :-) Then Dan T. for VP, ER for DOD head, Alan for head of Health and Family Services, dr lobo for Sec. of State. Sounds like a good Democrat ticket to me. I'm sure you have more friends that could round out all the other important positions. "Heaven" on earth guaranteed. Cough, cough, hrrmph.
It seems that Mom2 doesn't have an actual answer to criticisms. She gets a tad catty, and it would be better to dismiss her.
Except, behind her rather catty comment (she can't even bring herself to type "goddamn") lies the kind of non-sequitur that usually ties Democrats and liberals up in knots. It isn't about who's perfect. God knows, if we held out for perfection, we never would have had any Presidents, except perhaps for George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. She wants a "moral" man (no word on whether a moral woman would get her vote) for President, and all I can ask is this: The last truly morally decent human being who was President of the United States was one she and most fuundies consider devil-spawn, James Earl Carter, Jr. Before that, we'd have to go back to "Silent" Calvin Coolidge for a decent, average man elevated far above his abilities in to the office of President (replacing another indecent example of the Peter Principle, Warren Harding). Since both these men were and are considered pretty average to low-average Presidents (I think Carter's a great guy, but don't get me started), I just wonder - is Mom2 holding out for a pretty bad President who is a decent fellow?
In any event, back to Iran - since that is the topic. . .
The very idea that Iran poses the same kind of threat Nazi Germany did, or the Soviet Union did, is preposterous on its face. As long as our world is controlled by crazy people like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, and enabled by a press corps that is really too dumb to do research before asking dumb questions (no offense to your profession, ER, but they didn't exactly do themselves proud at the presser yesterday), expect more of this kind of gibberish.
For gibberish is what it is. Nonsense. Balderdash. Irrational Exuberance of a political/diplomatic sort.
It is a lie. A Damn Lie. A Bush Press Release.
Except, behind her rather catty comment (she can't even bring herself to type "goddamn") lies the kind of non-sequitur that usually ties Democrats and liberals up in knots. It isn't about who's perfect. God knows, if we held out for perfection, we never would have had any Presidents, except perhaps for George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. She wants a "moral" man (no word on whether a moral woman would get her vote) for President, and all I can ask is this: The last truly morally decent human being who was President of the United States was one she and most fuundies consider devil-spawn, James Earl Carter, Jr. Before that, we'd have to go back to "Silent" Calvin Coolidge for a decent, average man elevated far above his abilities in to the office of President (replacing another indecent example of the Peter Principle, Warren Harding). Since both these men were and are considered pretty average to low-average Presidents (I think Carter's a great guy, but don't get me started), I just wonder - is Mom2 holding out for a pretty bad President who is a decent fellow?
In any event, back to Iran - since that is the topic. . .
The very idea that Iran poses the same kind of threat Nazi Germany did, or the Soviet Union did, is preposterous on its face. As long as our world is controlled by crazy people like George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, and enabled by a press corps that is really too dumb to do research before asking dumb questions (no offense to your profession, ER, but they didn't exactly do themselves proud at the presser yesterday), expect more of this kind of gibberish.
For gibberish is what it is. Nonsense. Balderdash. Irrational Exuberance of a political/diplomatic sort.
It is a lie. A Damn Lie. A Bush Press Release.
Mom2, I have never encountered you where you displayed a sense of humor at all.
Caught me unawares (?)
Caught me unawares (?)
I don't want DOD. I want Interior.
Geoffrey can head the Department of Peace.
Drlobo Jo to head the Voice of America, and merge it with Al-Jazeera (I'm reading THE book on Al-Jazeera: They are fearless.)
Dan can head HHS.
Alan, what post would you want???
Karen?
Kiki?
Tech?
Frenzied?
Anybody I missed?
Geoffrey can head the Department of Peace.
Drlobo Jo to head the Voice of America, and merge it with Al-Jazeera (I'm reading THE book on Al-Jazeera: They are fearless.)
Dan can head HHS.
Alan, what post would you want???
Karen?
Kiki?
Tech?
Frenzied?
Anybody I missed?
Sounds all good to me ER. As for Geoffrey, tain't the first time I've been misread. I really do have a sense of humor. I grew up with 4 brothers, you got lots of teasing from them and sometimes they made me mad, but after I figured out that was their intent, I went along with them.
mom2:"dr lobo, I will probably vote for Huckabee."
Huckabee has a real chance. If he just holds on, the others will trip and fall on their own face. The rigorist have no one else to ralley around, and he would be at least someone with a sense of humor. But dang, I'm tired of Texas and Arkansas in the White House.
Huckabee has a real chance. If he just holds on, the others will trip and fall on their own face. The rigorist have no one else to ralley around, and he would be at least someone with a sense of humor. But dang, I'm tired of Texas and Arkansas in the White House.
What is most interesting about the "top tier" of the Republicans is that none of them is a real conservative! Giuliani, Romney - both moderate to liberals politicians, old style Northeastern Republicans through and through. Which is why I find the Dobson threat to bolt so intriguing, when Mike Huckabee, and the recently departed Sam Brownback, both of whom were legit social conservatives, were right there to be plucked up (to quote God's word to Jeremiah). I think it just goes to show how politically inept Dobson is, more than anything else.
Mom2, I apologize, truly. BTW, I want neither the Big Chair, nor the Department of Peace. Give me homeland security and all those phone records.
Mom2, I apologize, truly. BTW, I want neither the Big Chair, nor the Department of Peace. Give me homeland security and all those phone records.
Geoffrey: You canhave the phone records, if you burn 'em. :-)
My qualified "endorsement" of Huckabee for the GOP nomination: "He's the only one who doesn't me want to throw up." .. seems like I said that once before ...
My qualified "endorsement" of Huckabee for the GOP nomination: "He's the only one who doesn't me want to throw up." .. seems like I said that once before ...
dr lobo, you gotta say perty please or I'm gonna fillybuster you. And you will have to keep comin back and asking some more.
ER, I'm sorry, but I can't even think about taking a post, as I'm a foreigner (although my granddad was American) and can only worry about the situation from the outside (although, realistically, politically not that far outside...).
Thanks for thinking about me anyway.
But this post has made me laugh so much - and not because of you Mom2, if you want to convey a sense of humour, you've got to stay away from the watered down Amy Proctor stance.
Some brilliant repartee, brought on by depressing realities.
Thanks for thinking about me anyway.
But this post has made me laugh so much - and not because of you Mom2, if you want to convey a sense of humour, you've got to stay away from the watered down Amy Proctor stance.
Some brilliant repartee, brought on by depressing realities.
# posted by : 11:04 PM
: 11:04 PM
PS
All I can say is that I saw it coming as soon as GWB started saying "axis of evil" (classic propaganda language use), but everyone in my family is tired of hearing my predictions, and most people around me are un-political...
All I can say is that I saw it coming as soon as GWB started saying "axis of evil" (classic propaganda language use), but everyone in my family is tired of hearing my predictions, and most people around me are un-political...
# posted by : 11:14 PM
: 11:14 PM
mom2 said, "I'm gonna fillybuster you".
Now, we could maybe make a deal here. That sounds kinda interesting.
Maybe we could meet in Minnesota, at the airport next to the Mall Of America. Right across from the statue of Snoppy in his WWI flying hat. Know the place?
On a more serious note. I've been thinking what could trigger the Warner law. Originally I thought it might be the nuking of Houston. Now I think it could be done with the nuking of Kashmire. Both Pakistan and India would think it was the other and would return the strike and we could sneak in during the exchange and take out Iran's facilities too. That's enough of a crisis to set off the new law and maybe to get Jesus to come on down and go to work as well on the rapture thingy. That's just speculation mind you.
Now, we could maybe make a deal here. That sounds kinda interesting.
Maybe we could meet in Minnesota, at the airport next to the Mall Of America. Right across from the statue of Snoppy in his WWI flying hat. Know the place?
On a more serious note. I've been thinking what could trigger the Warner law. Originally I thought it might be the nuking of Houston. Now I think it could be done with the nuking of Kashmire. Both Pakistan and India would think it was the other and would return the strike and we could sneak in during the exchange and take out Iran's facilities too. That's enough of a crisis to set off the new law and maybe to get Jesus to come on down and go to work as well on the rapture thingy. That's just speculation mind you.
Some brilliant repartee, brought on by depressing realities.
# posted by karen : 11:04 PM
If you believe the Bible at all, more depressing realities than this may be in store for a world living in disobedience. I know tolerance is the latest religion, but a God of justice is serious about His Word and He is in control. While most people are busy politicking and looking for answers that they will never find, His plan will continue in His own time. His true believers can expect to be ridiculed because He said that would happen.
# posted by karen : 11:04 PM
If you believe the Bible at all, more depressing realities than this may be in store for a world living in disobedience. I know tolerance is the latest religion, but a God of justice is serious about His Word and He is in control. While most people are busy politicking and looking for answers that they will never find, His plan will continue in His own time. His true believers can expect to be ridiculed because He said that would happen.
I know ER has called me mean for saying such things before, but I honestly have no idea what in the world Mom2 is saying with her last comment. It looks good, I suppose. But what does it mean?
Health and Human Services? Lame.
I suppose head of the NSF would be most appropriate, or Dept of Ed., but both of those sound boring.
Since there isn't a Department of Disco, I want to be on the Supreme Court -- Chief Justice, of course. My understanding is that one doesn't have to be a lawyer or a judge to get the position, you get the wear fabulous robes, you get the job for life, and you get to have Nina Totenberg quote you on NPR. Sounds prefect to me.
My first act as Chief Justice would be to bring back the wigs.
Otherwise, I'll take Secretary of the Navy. If you have to ask why, you wouldn't get the joke.
I suppose head of the NSF would be most appropriate, or Dept of Ed., but both of those sound boring.
Since there isn't a Department of Disco, I want to be on the Supreme Court -- Chief Justice, of course. My understanding is that one doesn't have to be a lawyer or a judge to get the position, you get the wear fabulous robes, you get the job for life, and you get to have Nina Totenberg quote you on NPR. Sounds prefect to me.
My first act as Chief Justice would be to bring back the wigs.
Otherwise, I'll take Secretary of the Navy. If you have to ask why, you wouldn't get the joke.
# posted by : 8:35 AM
: 8:35 AM
For Alan - "In the Navy" indeed.
You could be liaison for public/private partnerships - "YMCA".
Or Head of the President's Council on Physical Fitness - "Macho Man".
Or head of NOAA - "It's Raining Men".
You could be liaison for public/private partnerships - "YMCA".
Or Head of the President's Council on Physical Fitness - "Macho Man".
Or head of NOAA - "It's Raining Men".
Mom2 is not that oblique.
Mom2 is speaking in basic fundamentalist English short hand.
I was raised speaking such, so I understand what she is saying. But I don't agree with the Jehovah judgmental part of it. That doesn't jive with the religon of grace that I subscribe to, but don't practice much.
As for that Relgion of "Tolerance" mentioned, haven't seen that recently. It seems more like religion has gone submissive and authoritarian in recent years.
ER don't let Allen anywhere near the Navy. FBI maybe.
Mom2 is speaking in basic fundamentalist English short hand.
I was raised speaking such, so I understand what she is saying. But I don't agree with the Jehovah judgmental part of it. That doesn't jive with the religon of grace that I subscribe to, but don't practice much.
As for that Relgion of "Tolerance" mentioned, haven't seen that recently. It seems more like religion has gone submissive and authoritarian in recent years.
ER don't let Allen anywhere near the Navy. FBI maybe.
Just so Karen can understand, I think she was being a bit snarky and intending to let me know that my humor is not necessarily wanted or needed here and that is ok. I don't really come here often.
Do what? Mom2, you see snark where it doesn't exist. That, or I missed it.
And Drlobo is dead on: Mom2 is speaking a religious dialect that I, too, know well. And to me, it's as antequated as ye olde Englifh.
I'll try to translate:
"If you believe the Bible as I do, then you know that God is pissed, and has always been pissed, ever since Adam and Eve, and if the heathen don't quit running around 'doing' stuff that God doesn't like, then despite all that Jesusy stuff about loving your neighbor and doing as to others as you would have them do unto you, God is going to go all Old Testament on everybody's butt again, like I say He said he would in the Bible as I understand it, and youy better understand it that way. Or Else. God will do this out of His sense of Justice, which is unassailable even by human attempts to work out their own salvation in fear and trembling, even by the Cross of Grace itself, if y'all don't don't shut up, shape up and fly right, according to my personal understanding of 'right.' And we who have the Truth expect you hell-bound sinners to ridicule and harrass us. The Bible says we would be abused. We believe it, ignoring the fact that every other faith tradition in the world, and the history of the world, has been ridiculed and harrassed by its own former adherents, by nonbelievers and by believers of other faiths. We, you see, are SPECIAL, not because God loves us, but because of what we BELIEVE about God, and if you don't see it my way, just go on to hell, OK?"
And Drlobo is dead on: Mom2 is speaking a religious dialect that I, too, know well. And to me, it's as antequated as ye olde Englifh.
I'll try to translate:
"If you believe the Bible as I do, then you know that God is pissed, and has always been pissed, ever since Adam and Eve, and if the heathen don't quit running around 'doing' stuff that God doesn't like, then despite all that Jesusy stuff about loving your neighbor and doing as to others as you would have them do unto you, God is going to go all Old Testament on everybody's butt again, like I say He said he would in the Bible as I understand it, and youy better understand it that way. Or Else. God will do this out of His sense of Justice, which is unassailable even by human attempts to work out their own salvation in fear and trembling, even by the Cross of Grace itself, if y'all don't don't shut up, shape up and fly right, according to my personal understanding of 'right.' And we who have the Truth expect you hell-bound sinners to ridicule and harrass us. The Bible says we would be abused. We believe it, ignoring the fact that every other faith tradition in the world, and the history of the world, has been ridiculed and harrassed by its own former adherents, by nonbelievers and by believers of other faiths. We, you see, are SPECIAL, not because God loves us, but because of what we BELIEVE about God, and if you don't see it my way, just go on to hell, OK?"
ER, thanks for the translation - I thought that was what she was saying. My question was less the content and more the relevance. The issue is the threat of Iran, and possible responses (or non-responses as the case should be). If this was Jeopardy, I wouldn't have said, "What is a possible response to a nuclear Iran?" Seems I would have lost $1000 on that one.
Dude. EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING in the Middle East is seen through an apocalyptic lens if you're a fundamentalist Christian in America. Revelation in one hand, the newspaper (or nowadays, the Internet) in the other is the way most of our fundamentalist brethren and sistren interpret all.
I read an interesting article (not sure where - it was a while ago) about how this fixation is causing the American Christian Right to twist what they think the prophecies say, and instead of waiting and being watchful for the end, they want to aggravate it, in order to make the second coming happen sooner.
This means supporting and feeding strife in the middle eastern regions (of course this would include Iraq, Iran), while idealizing Israel, and playing her like a piece in a game of chess. And because they have a pile of money, they have power to set political machinery in motion.
Has anyone heard about this phenomenon?
This means supporting and feeding strife in the middle eastern regions (of course this would include Iraq, Iran), while idealizing Israel, and playing her like a piece in a game of chess. And because they have a pile of money, they have power to set political machinery in motion.
Has anyone heard about this phenomenon?
# posted by : 5:40 PM
: 5:40 PM
The dispensationalist idea that we are, even now, sitting on the brink of doom is the blood-lusting desire of those for whom the world is a complicated place. The biggest threat to peace in the Middle East is neither Israel nor the Palestinians. It is American Christians who continue to insist that peace is not possible until the eschaton. They are dangerous, and need to be stopped.
Karen, ushering in the end of the world is all some churches here talk about! They don't get on TV unless CNN or somebody decides to do a special; but that IS the mainstream in large swaths of the rural American South and Southwest.
Oh, so it's not even a big secret?
Manipulating it to one's own agenda is OK from the extremists' point of view?
Manipulating it to one's own agenda is OK from the extremists' point of view?
# posted by : 7:32 PM
: 7:32 PM
Where do they find THAT in the Bible?!
From where I stand it just looks like they're testing God and heaping guilt upon themselves.
Maybe I should be watching CNN more often (I have a hard time because I find it so biased -that and Fox news) - ...(speechless)
From where I stand it just looks like they're testing God and heaping guilt upon themselves.
Maybe I should be watching CNN more often (I have a hard time because I find it so biased -that and Fox news) - ...(speechless)
# posted by : 8:15 PM
: 8:15 PM
Back to Iran and our attacking it, it will be attacked if God says to attack it. Remember what Bush told the leader of Israel back in 2003?
"God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me, I will act, and if not, the (2004) elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
--G.W. Bush in a summit with Ariel Sharon
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"God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me, I will act, and if not, the (2004) elections will come and I will have to focus on them."
--G.W. Bush in a summit with Ariel Sharon
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