Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

I'm not saying that "something" doesn't need to be done.

I am saying that my Christian faith obligates me to stand with the human beings who will be hurt.
 

Well as a matter of law, that is Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and "Equal Protection" under the Constitution, the fuzz can not ask anybody the questions the law imposes unless they ask all people the questions all the time. If you check out one guy you check out everybody everytime.

So checking everybody's citizenship everytime is tantamont to giveing everybody a drug test everytime they run a red light.
What are our guys in Blue supposed to do "profile" to find probable cause? That is fiscally $$$ dangerous for a patrol cop to do that kind of thing and they know it.
You know, not all U.S. citizens have a driver's liscenes or passports or other photo ID. Really, they don't. How are they to function?

The law is unenforcable, and doesn't provide a solution anyway. It just puts a lot of people potentially in harms way on both sides of the equation.

Is this how it started in other countries? First them and then us?
 

What about the Americans hurt by not being able to find a job because illegals have taken them? Especially teenagers who need job experience but uneducated illegals have taken most of the entry level opportunities. It's not fair to expect Americans to shoulder the burden and learn a whole new language if they want to be in a managerial position. I'll bet those construction crews don't have any trouble filling those positions. Someone gets hurt no matter which way it goes, so it shouldn't be those who are following the rules. Anarchy is not pretty.
 

Anon. I have no idea where you live, so I have no idea what the employment situation is around you.

But I believe that if people were available and willing to do the jobs that Hispanic Americans -- and illegals -- are doing, this would not be an issue.

And I know for a fact that around here, construction contractors -- be it commercial or home builders -- are worried about what's going to happen if the hired hands, skilled or unskilled, who work for the subs, and subs are what make the constructioon world go round --if those workers disappear, it will be one more drain on a labor market that already is already stumbling.

I believe the gin managers in southwest Oklahoma who say that they don't know how the cotton crop is going to get harvested and ginned without them. And I know from personal experience that if you show up wearing a tie, with a camera around your neck, that you can flat empty a cotton gin in this part of the country.

I believe the churches in south OKC when the priests say their congregations have already been halved becaue people are disappearing -- there goes human and monetary resources from real communities of real people.

I believe the very American Hispanic restaurateurs and other business owners when they say the same of their clientele.

Don't tell me about "fairness" about some assumed "right" that Americans have over "illegals" in their midst! This is an economic issue as well as a moral one. The &*(^%$ State Chamber of Oklahoma thinks this law will do more harm than good.
 

Last year about this time I went to Hobbs, N.M. There were fields and fields of cotton and beautiful peppers, squash and pumpkins sitting there ready to rot because there were no crews to harvest them. There had been a local crackdown on "illegal" immigrants. Talk to the farmer who grew those crops about hiring teens to harvest the peppers, and then come back and tell us what a lost crop cost him.
There's so much fear of the "brown invasion" in my part of the state (northern Oklahoma) that several tiny communities are passing "English only" ordinances. Just another example of their stupidity. There's not a Hispanic person within 50 miles of these idiots but they want to protect God's English.

I was at the pharmacy tonight and the drive-thru window was backed up because the pharmacist was requiring everyone in the whole dang car to show a driver's license or state ID before they would deign to fill a prescription for an antibiotic for a child. Tell me how one iota of that scenario is right.
 

Anon,
You can't turn the clock back to 1980. Our blessed economy is now dependent on the 12 t0 20 million illegal aliens, other wise they wouldn't stay here cause we wouldn't need them.
What we need to do is get the mess fixed not punish someone for it.
This friggin law will coagulate the normal business day for every Oklahoman. It is now a crime to pick up a hitchhiker or give someone a ride home without first checking their citizenship. Tell me anon, can you prove without a doubt that you are a American Citizen, right now, without digging in the closet or filing cabinet? Nope a driver's license won't do it. It only proves domicile not citizenship. Passport? how many people have those? (I've got two, but my wife has none) Social Security Card, an easily forged item. Birth Certificate, yep good, you going to carry it around all day everyday? How we gonna know that it is really you and that you didn't look up some dead kid born when you were and steal his/her identity. I have an idea, lets get national identity papers for all citizens, and work permits so we know who can work and at what.

You see, America runs on faith and trust: faith and trust in each other, in our money, in our systems, in our government. Once we question that faith in each other all else begins to come apart.
Anon, I hope you live in Oklahoma for we are about to become a grand social experiment and it is going to fail. You can partiscipate.
 

I love this state. It's my home. But nothing has made me want to head to the mountains like this.

If I hurry I can get a good seat to watch it burn to the ground to usher in its second century -- courtesy of state Rep. Randy Terrill, mainly, but also every other stupid, myopic son-of-a-bitch who voted for this AND the Democratic governor who signed it.

Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?
 

Hell ER we ain't going to burn up. We are going to clog up. Sort of like a toilet you know, that you just keep flushing and it just keeps running over, and then you start getting the stuff from the guy who lives on the hill above you and then... well you get the picture.
Next time you are at a WalMart buy some good ole fashioned clothes pins for you nose. It will be over sooner or later. Even the dumbest somofabitch will figure out eventually to stop flushing the shitter when the crap gets deep enough.
Hopefully we can provide a lesson for America on how not to solve the problem that needs to be solved.
 

Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?

Not so fast, Bucko. Let's see that ID first. Maybe we should just take a DNA sample to make sure.
 

Isn't Tylenol made in Mexico?
 

Hmm, ER, I can't decide whether or not to even comment on this--though you were pretty nice to Anonymous. :)

Living in southern California, we're one of the ones of the front lines of the immigration debate. I get to see up close and personal how it affects our economy. I truly am concerned for my son in his overcrowded school. I'm also concerned for him when he's an adult and what hoops he may have to jump through to get a job because he's a white male.

I'd like to go back to work when he graduates, specifically I'd like to work for the school district. However, I don't speak Spanish, so I don't qualify for positions I would be qualified for if Spanish wasn't a requirement. Lunch lady isn't exactly the job I was aiming for.

There have been times I've been shopping and heard nothing but Spanish among the other customers in the aisles. Heck, half the announcements to employees over the PA are in Spanish, too.

I truly understand where you're coming from looking at it from the Christian angle. However, I do think there has got to be more control over immigration. I wouldn't want to turn anyone away that is in need, but at the same time, too many on the boat will cause it to sink. It's got to be balanced.

Okay, I'm ducking now... ;)
 

Drlobojo said: I have an idea, lets get national identity papers for all citizens, and work permits so we know who can work and at what.

Just out of curiosity...okay, let's do that, if that's what it takes.

Now tell me why you wouldn't want to do that.
 

No need to duck, Frenzied. :-)

But the language issue has zilch to do with legality of residency. Nada. That caballo has done left the barn. I'd learn Spanish if I was you -- *and* doing so is on my lifelong-learning list.

The jobs issue really does not extend past manual labor here. Maybe if all the illegals leave, the market will respond by raising wages to the level that non-immigrant workers will do the work. That has already happened in certain segments of construction here -- I mean the costs havwe already gone up, doubled in the past week, in fact. Because the ones who are legal, and left, know they can do it. That there is the market at work.
 

The hell with the papers, let's go straight to the chip in the skull for location as well as data.
There is no reason why we can't do it. No technical reason that is. The Constitution might be a problem, but apparently not much of one.
In the birth to 25 year old populations both Texas and California have no majority race, and that is without counting the illegal aliens.

As far as Spanish infiltrating our American society, in the early 1960's visiting my college roomate's home in Las Cruzes and his sister in Chama, New Mexico and then again for a week in Miami Florida there were days I heard nothing but Spanish. That's over 40 years ago. The Miami (and New Orleans) stay was with Cubans. But the New Mexico stay was with an American family that had lived there since before 1700.

Perhaps the ladies reading this are too young to remember that in the 50s and 60s feminism was a dirty word because women were taking jobs away from men.
Also, think on this, if the minimum wage of 2007 were of the same value that it was in the 1960s it would have to be about $12 an hour. Why did it not go up as our economy advanced? How was it held down? It ain't the Mexicans that are the problem it is the people that are using the Mexicans just like they used the women of America.

By the way I would forgo the Spanish classes and go straight to Chinese. That's going to be your kids' real competition. It is just a matter of mathematics.

To the barricades!
 

Dude, the Chinese are my kids' problem. But I heard not long ago that before long the biggest Emglish-speaking country in the world will be ... China.

Language is NOT the issue! LIVING, under whatever powers that be, is the issue.
 

One of the things about the Chinese that will confound us (already has in fact) is that their language uses a different lobe of the brain than the linear alphabetic lanuages of the West.
Thus they are using "Images" and "linear thinking" differently than we are.
See "Firefly" or "Serenity" for the future blend.
 

Today is the Day!
November 1st.
HB 1804 is law! So?
 

So, mosdt oft he illegals have high-tailed it by now, with northwest Arkansas and Texas reporing an infulx from Oklahoma's reflex; bocks of houses are abandoned in some parts of south OKC; some apartment complexes have sufdden vacancies to deal with; the cost of doing business has already gone in some segments of the construction industry -- and if winter wasn't coming on, and most lawns and landscapes already "laid by," before long grass would need cut in the neighborhoods where people pay to have their yard work done. Comes spring, let's see how much more it costs to pay somebody to mow yer yard around here.
 

You are right. I haven't heard a leaf blower in days.