Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

Have you ever read "Lord of the Barnyard" by Tristan Egolf? Pretty damn good; it has a garbage man as its Christ figure.
The author has it in for the Methodists, for some reason. He seems to have had some bad experiences with them, which are at odds with what at least two of my ex-girlfriends have to tell me.

I don't know Spong at all, except for your name-checking of him. I wanna read more.

I stayed out of the conversation a couple of posts ago regarding atheism because, like I say, doctrinaire atheism gives me a pain in the same sense that fundamentalist religiosity does: both are manifestations of absolutism, which I feel is the main bugaboo effecting humanity.

I believe what I believe, and choose to not discuss it so much, because it is still a matter of faith, and is therefore private. My lack of belief in these things that the rest of the human race believes in makes me happy and feel secure in the universe I live in.
Damn shame you have all these absolutists hectoring you. I don't dip my beak in anymore, but the thing is; theology holds a great interest for me, as I know that we're living history right now, and religion, as always, is a part of it. This is what people do.
 

Oh, the only persojn to ever really get my dander up seriously is Pastor Timothy.

Oh and a certifiable nutjob in Arkansas.
 

Oh, and no, never heard of that book. Sounds interesting...
 

No sir, the worst thing I ever did was put my ex through the school of religion. If I could use the back-up machine and go back 20 years, I'd tell him to get a job and put himself through.
 

I refuse to visit neil's place anymore, so I will just need to get the details elsewhere.
 

Aaagh! I did it! I went, I read, my eyes hurt now.

Seriously, dude, why in the name of all that's good do you even bother? It's like shouting at deaf people - being even louder will not make them hear you.

I gotta go my own way, and leave those who earnestly believe they are the bearers of Truth to themselves. Frankly, man - they scare the living crap out of me.
 

Best thing I ever did was put my ex through med school, so when he found religion and abandoned his family for the younger woman, he had a good job that was able to pay child support and put me through undergrad and grad school.

If #2 wanted to sell his designer cows and go to seminary I'd say yes! and do it all over again, 'cause I truly believe that everyone should follow their calling/nudging to the limit - and I'd probably join him and do another degree.
 

Geoffrey, I think I go for the same reasons I visit old haunts when I go back to my hometown area. I mean, there is hardly a time that my brother and I, and-or my oldest bestest friend back there, don't jump in my truck and drive around down in the river bottoms where our dad and his brothers farmed and we, as teens and young men, drank beer, or up in the hills where we used to drink beer and hang out.

Part of me is still everywhere I've ever been. Maybe I go to commune with my self. ... Fact is, I'm about as comfortable in the bottoms or the hills as I am right here in my own suburban house, and I'm about as comfortable cussin' and discussin' with fundies as I am hangin' out with lib and lefty Christians. Maybe I'm spiritually schizo.
 

Designer cows? You mean a not prominent breed, or are y'all seriously into lab genetics (as opposed to barnyard selection)??
 

I mean the "top models", the Naomi Campbells of the elite Holstein world. The "Beauty", and "Macy" and "Cheyenne" cows.

The ones that win at the World Dairy Expo and whose embryos are sent all over the world because they come from the "stars".

Barnyard selection killed a lot of farmers, so the top males go to places where they have fun every day and produce good stuff that'll make nice strong, long-living daughters with healthy milk.

It's not lab genetics on the farm, it's working with genetics to get closer to the perfect cow because they truly love them: daughters and mothers and grandmothers and sires etc - the pedigrees go back for generations and generations and are fondly talked about.
 

Ah! Real competitors. Very cool.
 

I think your ventures into the candy stores are just going to keep rottin' your teeth. That'll make you ugly.

It's not good for you, and it makes the rest of us just look at you funny.
 

"the only person to ever really get my dander up seriously is Pastor Timothy"...What? I don't warrant a mention?

Sorry I haven't visited lately. i am involved in yet another move and have had little time online. I am back and posting semi-reguarly.
 

My son's currently reading a book by Spong called, "Jesus for the Non-religious." He hasn't finished it, but so far his opinion has been pretty much, why does this guy bother calling himself a Christian? At least he's easier to read than Christopher Hitchens who does burn my eyes a bit...

Anyway, I don't see why you couldn't take one or two classes a semester as long as you were working, too. If you got a Master's while holding a fulltime job, this is doable, too. I think, anyway. I'm not sure I understand what the problem is.

Crystal
 

Ugh... I also continue to visit Neil's place occasionally. As Sun Tzu said, I think it's generally wise to "know your enemies", and I'm not really tapped into what the folks over at FOTF are ranting about, so it's a nice way to get a summary without burning my retinas by actually going to the FOTF website myself. :)

But those folks inability to carry on a conversation without the least indication of civility or manners is, as I've said, appalling.

Notice how many times (dozens?) you and Dan have been accused of not believing the Bible, adding to it (Green Eggs and Ham?!), etc. You guys keep defending yourself, and do an admirable job at it. However, just keep in mind how Einstein defined insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Keep at it, just don't expect different results over there ... trust me, it'll never happen.

After hanging out at such venues for a while, I've come to the conclusion that debate (no matter how reasoned the arguments, no matter how good the supporting evidence, secular or sacred) has never changed anyone's mind about anything ever. People simply do not make data-based decisions about such issues. If they did, there would be no overweight physicians who smoke, eh? I think the best one can do is present an alternative viewpoint, in case someone stumbles (literally) across their blogs.
 

Money, time and distance.

Mark, no, you do not rate among bloggers I have zero respect for. You and just disgaree vehemently.
 

I think that last thing is close to why I doit. And, to make sure the regulars understand that not all Christians think alike!
 

Years ago I accidently rode back on the same plane once with one of my old neighbors who was a dairy farmer. We discussed how the business had changed since his Dad started his farm(which is now under Lake Arcadia). He was on his way back from what I will call the dairy bull breeding committee. That was the group that decided which of the few dozen designer bulls' sperm would be used where and by how many and what kind of dairy cows. I just sat there with my mouth open. It simply never occured to me that bull seamen was a controled substance.
So you have fewer and fewer bulls breeding all of the cows. So I asked about bio diversity and he launched into a lecture about increased productivity and accenting the qualities of the cow that were milk producing and artificail insemination of the eggs of the right kind of cows (are cow eggs regulate too?). After I listened to his explanations, I began to visualize the perfect dairy cow that I was taught to judge by back in FFA. The cow became a giant utter top with a digestive system. It had stilt type legs just right to hold the cow up but not made for ambulation. The head was small, blind and deaf, with a feeding tube going into the mouth. The cow's ass had a tube also for the explusion of waste material which was recyled back into the feeding system. Productivity was 687% greater than a 1990's cow, and could be done anywhere, even on a space ship destined for another planet or solarsystem.
It wasn't about the cow, it was about the milk. It wasn't about the milk, it was about the productivity. It wasn't about the productivity it was about the profit.

Now, what is the be all and end all of Christianity? Is it saving one's self? Is it saving other's souls? Is it to worship God? Is it to become a perfect person? Is it to be a good little child? Is it submission to Christ? Is it to beat the devil?

The fundamental thing we need to do is discover what it is that we need to do and then design what we need to do to do it. Obviously it is only the Utter that counts, but for a true Christian what is that?

ER if you want nonsense you don't have to go play in that other guy's sand box. You can have it here. At least here when you find cat shit in the sand you have an idea whoes it might be.
 

I think that's a good reason and one of mine - we're not all Dobson.
 

LOL. Those last two comments are rather unfortunately ordered.
 

I think that's a little harsh. Of course, it's about productivity. But it's also about getting the most productivity from the best cows. ... On the other hand, they did dang near breed Herefords into ottomans with horns.
 

Allen said:.....I've come to the conclusion that debate (no matter how reasoned the arguments, no matter how good the supporting evidence, secular or sacred) has never changed anyone's mind about anything ever....."

Amen Allen!

You know Luther his own self said that the epiphany that started the Reformation came to him while he was taking a shit. So maybe everyone needs to just take a good dump to clear their minds. There must be someone somewhere that has made a cult out of this idea.
By the way they recently uncovered Luther's shit house where the Reformation was formed.
But this also brings to mind the habit I encountered in Eithiopia when you would hear beside the road the clicking of rocks to gether and someone shouting in Amahara or Tigrenian "Seven-Seven-Seven...." Then you would know that someone was out there, stooped down, taking a shit. They were banging the rocks together and shouting seven in order to keep the evil spirits and devils from entering their bodies through their ass holes while they took a shit and thus possessing them.

Now if they are right, maybe, just maybe Martin Luther.........
 

You're right about profit - but I'm learning that if you want people to produce milk or any kind of food, then profit has to be involved or else the staff can't be paid and the farmer cashes in and goes golfing in California.

The monopoly in semen has changed, hubby for instance didn't like the lack of balance, the weak legs, the bad heads etc. coming out of the main AI company, so he and a few like-minded started their own, with a lot of others appreciating the quality being produced by these "new" bulls.

In the States (and Mexico as well), where you have a lot of thousand cow milking operations, the life-span of a cow is very short - they're used up after about 2 years.
The cows we breed and normally export (when borders are open) can be milked, if taken care of, for up to 15 years (that's one of the reasons legs are so important - they have to hold them up for a lot longer).

Thank God we're NOT all Dobson! I'm sorry but that guy really bugs me. Can't read him.
 

"Thank God we're NOT all Dobson! I'm sorry but that guy really bugs me. Can't read him."

Indeed. Someone should let him know that the opposite of faith is not doubt, but certainty. (I think that's a quote from Anne Lamott, but I'm not 100% sure.)
 

My friend, you are the one who has always encouraged me to go back to school. More learning is always a good ideal.

I know this is something very important to you. I just know there has to be a way, for you to go.
Jeannie Diane
 

Karen, 12, 14 years ago, I was single and the farm-ranch editor for a paper in Texas. On bad days, I said a time or three that I was gonna blow that popsicle stand and go be a bull semen salesman! I was thinkin' beef, though, not milk.
 

I'm gonna have to put a PG warning on this post, what with the moo juice talk and the scatalogical references!
 

Hey you would have made a killing: a valuable, proven bull can give 1-2 loads a day, each at 1,500 doses - at $30- (sometimes)$ 100 a dose.

Oh but the love of writing overrides everything, I know!
I have a girlfriend who's a journalist and know the sacrifices made for the printed word.

We in the other Humanities often forget about striving for money as well, and these discussions abound at my house: whether or not something can have value if it doesn't bring in money.
 

Karen said: "The monopoly in semen has changed, hubby for instance didn't like the lack of balance, the weak legs, the bad heads etc. coming out of the main AI company, so he and a few like-minded started their own, with a lot of others appreciating the quality being produced by these "new" bulls."

Excellent, and it serves as a great metaphor for what Spong is trying to do. Is he correct? Longer life and good milk or short life and loads and loads of milk?

P. Tim and ilk have shortend Sprong's 12 points down to unrecognizable prattle. I don't think Sprong is correct, but he has more rational thought going than they do.

Even the LDS (Mormon) Church came about when someone decided that the current bulls weren't right.
See images of their baptistry on google.
 

Great synthesis on the two subjects. If I could do the same with my thesis, it would shine.
 

Oh yes, by the way, Dr. ER you got to put ER through seminary. Why? Well it is the only way he will ever figure out that he is a true heritic. Oh yes, and that that ain't so bad neither. Better to have him going to seminary and keeping cuddled and warm at night that watch him peddeling bull seaman all over western America. Truth is I think the boy would be better of in a PhD. program somewhere's near by where you are.
There ER I done did what you "asked", now can I have my cat back?
 

Heck yeah, seminary is expensive. Had to sell my house to pay for it. And look where it got me.

I count all things as poop so that I may gain Christ (that would include my seminary degree).