Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

So which of the fruits of the Spirit are you lacking?
I for one lack many most of the time - and know a lot of people actively walking with God that don't exude all of them all of the time...So where's the problem here?
We're still covered by grace and go day by day.
And what about the other similar verse, that they'll know us by our love?
 

I confess to regular bouts with lack of patience with fundamentalist Christianity and right-wing politics, occasional lack of gentleness with some individuals, and lack of self-control when it comes to gluttony.

Not sure how I lack humility, since blogwise, I pretty much let it all hang out -- faith, sin, hopes, fears, likes, dislikes -- LIFE.
 

I find the name of the church particularly galling.
 

I didn't need to go there, but I did. I searched and gathered and came up with nuts.

ER, my feeling is that you're like that little kid walking by the candy store when you see these "fundamentalist" blogs. You know your momma told you not to buy any candy. You know better than to walk inside.

But once you walk inside, you smell the sugar in the air, and no matter how bad it is for you, you realize the nickle in your pocket won't be there for much longer. You must have that candy.

Any exchange with Timothy is bad for you. Any exchange for anyone with similar beliefs to Timothy's is bad for you. But, by gawd, you're going to get your freakin' nickle's worth.

My advice is to consider yourself a "fundamentalist" diabetic. Take your medicine and stay the hell away from 'em.

But you won't. That nickle's burnin' a hole in your pocket, and the exchange burns a hole in your stomach lining.
 

"All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God". I think maybe it was that you like "Saving Grace" a little too much for Timmy.

Pastor Tim has always seemed to me to embrace hardline dualism. That's a heresey that has had many names over the past two thousand years. If Tim were a Bogomil or a Cathar for example he would consider you a "dead end" and he would be a "Perfect" and he would be biblically bound to condemn you for your own good and so that he would retain his perfection as well.
The heresey of abject dualism is rampant among the fundamentalist evangelicals these days and they don't even know it.
I gave up any "dialog" with brother Tim over a year ago. We were having parallel monlogs to no profit.

By the way Dualism was pretty well stomped out by the Roman Church during their 5th Crusade against the Albigencians.
 

Well, yeah. What's yer point, Teditor? :-) It's no fun -- and there's no learning, for anyone, me or them -- just hangin' out with people who all think alike.
 

Excellent analysis Teditor, excellent.
 

Wrong ER, you hang out with people who think!
 

On the other hand, ya never know for sure what kind of store you're in until you've been in it awhile. In the thread in question, I wadn't even talkin' to Timothy; he just saw fit to "correct" me, then he saw fit to "rebuke" me, then he saw fit to condemn me. And, as I said, he's made a fool of himself. I'm just giving him some advertising with this post. I mean, he's proud of himself.
 

Hmm. I reckon I might've misquoted myself there, DrLobo. ... Maybe I like to hang out with fundies for the same reason I like racin' -- incredible underlyuing tension with a reeeeaaall good chance for a huge fiery pile-up!

Yee haw! Redneck liberal Jesusians for Universalism! LOLOL
 

OK. Not univeralist. But damn near.
 

Well, there went the "patience", "gentelness", and "self control". Three down and three to go.
 

Oopsie.
 

I believe I am developing ER's Type II fundamentalist diabetes. On the one hand, I fail to understand these people, and I know I am only going to become angry, frustrated, and confused after reading posts and comments. On the other hand, I just. Can't. Seem. To. Stay. AWAY!!!
 

ER, I hope you see this soon, and find your way over to 4simpsons. I have had enough and let it all hang out in a comment there. I have decided I have learned pretty much all I want to learn about fundamentalism, because I have yet to read anything that even remotely resembles my understanding and experience of the faith. I feel a need to wash, and not just because I have to get ready to go to work. . .
 

ER, of course, it's fun to have that exchange ... until it angers you to the point that it regularly does.

If eating radishes continually gives you heartburn, stay the hell out of that portion of the garden. It doesn't matter how much you like 'em, the trouble isn't worth the "pain."

Think of 'em as japalenos. They taste wonderful. Their flavor lingers for hours. The spice is fabulous. But in the end, they just burn your ass.

(I'm all about food analogies today.)
 

Geoff: Saw it. It probably fell on stony ground.
 

Teditor: I still eat jalapenos, even though they hurt -- because the enjoyment I get from them is (slightly) better than the pain they cause me!
 

Ya know, I'm reading the biography of Keith Green right now, and I'm hearing the word or the LORD in Keith's story -- and it has little to do with what one believes (although it does have to do with that), and lots to do with what one does with what one believes.

Mostly, though, it has to do with SURRENDER to God in the face of the reality of the Risen Christ.

I just wish people like Pastor Timothy would let go of the tight grip they think they have on God through Christ -- and let Jesus by Jesus. And let his followers follow!
 

By the way, I suck at following Christ. Thank God for God and God's grace!
 

The point was made elsewhere: "Jesus came, not to bring peace, but to divide people. Telling homosexuals, atheists, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and others that they are going to experience a very violent and terrible afterlife is the Truth of the gospel. Some may say see that as a threat, we Christians see it as sharing the Good News with mankind."

Man, ER, I walked through some of them "Candy Stores" you've been recently and picked up this little jalapeno jelly bean. With "Truth" and "good news" like this to share, well no wonder your ass burns.
 

Jesus is forever going to be Jesus, in spite of Pastor Timothy, and that's knowledge that can bring peace.
I keep having to remind myself of that when I get upset at those who want to put God (F, S, and HS) into tight little boxes that He never even created.
I"ve come to a point where I can honestly say: I'm glad that the grace of God extends to them just as it does to me (even though they might not think that His grace has been given to me at all).

So aren't you just blown away by the God you meet in No Compromise?

Read it in 1993, just before my whole life (or what I thought was my life) imploded,exploded and was destroyed, and reality and my walk with our Lord changed from being comfortably sorted in tiny boxes, to being a wide open adventure in the crazy wilds of faith.

Enjoy! Have you read The Gold Cord, by Amy Carmichael? Letters from Prison by Dietrich Bonhoeffer?
The Letters of the Hans and Sophie Scholl?
 

Somebody, probably the good pastor himself anonymously accused me of goign too far with this post.

I don't think so. Pastor Timothy believes what he wrote, and I would expect an honest man to stand by it, and be glad to.
 

I keep meanijgn to read some Bonhoeffer.
 

Wow, what a guy that Timothy. I bet he's happy there's grace.
 

Let's see. Timothy links to his church from his own blog. But if I link to his chuirch from this blog, I'm linking to his family?

Timothy, you're a head case. I'll take down the link to your church, even though you have revealed yourself, yourself, to the world.

Keep using my name, though, and I'll send copies of this whole GODFORSAKEN mess to your deacons. How d'you like them apples?
 

Bullshit, Beth. What part of this hard to understand?

Your husband links to the church Web site from his blog. I link to his blog. It's all bloggy.
 

You're welcome. You're wrong. You're overreacting. You've revealed yourself, yourself, to the Internet, which was ill-advised in the first place.

But you're welcome.
 

"Us"? You brought yourself into this -- again. Go away. Quit coming here, and tell your husband to quit being such a judgmental jerk, and stereotypical holier-than-thou hypocrite -- with an old friend, no less -- and tell him if he sees me on another blog, to just ignore me and resist the urge to "correct" or otherwise engage me. He has NO STANDING to judge me, and the most pathetic thing is he can dish it, but he can't take it. Y'all need to get help.
 

Get a grip Beth - and get mad at the person who needs getting mad at! (ran to mommy did he?)

The only danger you're in, is being an embarrassment to your Church family and your kids (boy I'd love to see them when they're teens - with parents like that...)
 

I am not sorry this happened, y'all. Pastor Timothy lived up to my lowest expectations.
 

To wit (and these, from Pastor Timothy, with my name redacted, will fill in some of the gaps above):


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Numbers 22: 28a":

OK (ER's name),
You've gone too far on this one.


Posted by Anonymous to Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A. at 1:13 PM



Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Numbers 22: 28a":

Yes, (ER's name). It's one thing to attack me on another site [never happened -- ER], but to have links to my family on your site, that is where you have gone to far. Either remove the link to the church web site, and yes, at my discretion, I have posted that link on my blog, or I will use your name every time I see you on another blog.

BTW, I find it quite humorous that you attack me by stating that I would stand by my words if I were honest, and yet, you hide behind a pseudonym. [Somebody explain that one to me: "you attack me by stating that I would stand by words if I were honest." Do what? And, Timothy selectively reveals himself on-line. I never have, ever. Who's being consistent?-- ER]


Posted by Anonymous to Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A. at 1:44 PM


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Numbers 22: 28a":

Please take the link off.


Posted by Anonymous to Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A. at 2:01 PM


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Numbers 22: 28a":

Thank you.


Posted by Anonymous to Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A. at 2:10 PM
 

Note that as of 4 p.m. Monday, Pastor Timothy still has my name up at his blog, along with a bunch of libelous bile, even though I did what he and his mommy asked by taking down the link to his church.

His deacons are gonna LOVE to see this exchange -- which they won't see only if he does the honorable thing and takes my name down.
 

I take that back. They'll get a copy of this whole mess whether or not he takes my name down. They need to know what kind of man they have in their pulpit.
 

I'm very sorry to see this. I had always respected P.T. for his upright convictions and willingness to defend his beliefs, even when I personally disagreed with some of them. (As you know, ER, I am more conservative than you are and so found myself often at least in sympathy with P.T. when not in agreement.) Oh well, that's how it goes in the rough-n-tuff world of religious wrestling. There never are any heroes. I don't know why we keep looking for them. The sad thing about this is that I didn't even know the tussle was going on until Slim -- a self described sinner and church hater -- emailed me gleefully with the current exchange. It sure gives him ammo.
 

Well, I'm a self-described sinner, and I don't have much use for most churches, myself.

Slim, if yer lurking: None of that has squat to do with God and yourself. Or God and myself. Church is just where people get together with people of like mind and faith -- and most of 'em, at least the fundy ones, think they're the only ones with the Truth. Even lib churches can get high and mighty, though, too.

The worst thing to ever happen to The Way that Jesus left behind is it got organized into a religion!
 

I don't know that we can just pretend everything is great and perfect for those who want to stand outside and hate us. If all were perfect we'd already be in paradise, which by the way we're not, if everyone hasn't noticed by now.
A hurricane in its own right if you ask me - stirred things up, got the adrenaline going and maybe PT and wifey B got a bit of a reality check (being a pastor can sometimes do things to your mind, I've heard) and perhaps they can come down to the level of every other human being on this earth.
 

Wow. I'm so glad I don't go to Pastor Timothy's church, because I'd have to quit. He let you post on his blog because he thought it might bring you to repentance? Where's that verse about removing the log from your own eye first...? Geez, for your own sake, ER, stay out of the candy store.

Crystal
 

Is there a fundamentalist-diabetic insulin I could take?
 

A "self described sinner"? Heck, I've never had to define my sins, there have always been someone around to do it for me.
ER, it is OK to be pissed about your name being posted by little Timbo, but you should not be pissed when a Ordained Reformed Calvinist lables you as not up to his or her snuff. Wear it as a badge of honor. By definition my views of God, Christ, Salvation, the Bible would have to be decried, rejected, and condemed by Pastor Timothy based on the faith structure which professes and to which he is ordained. That his damn job description. He can do no less. Cut him some slack or not, but realize he has different rules of engagement than you and I do.
Go ahead turn him in to his Elders. That will get him a salary raise for sure! Especially when they find out you called them "Deacons" like they were some Baptist scum or something :0.
 

What a WATB (Whiny Ass Titty Baby). He got his wife to after you - that's hilarious. I'm not sure reporting to his deacon's board is the best way to go about this, although him using your real name is nasty.

I need to have a chat with you some time, in private as it were, about my own reflections on my experience with Neil. I think you might find it interesting; or you might find me over-reacting. Anyway, sorry this got ugly (although not as ugly as me).
 

Oh, Drlobo, I fully expect that his elders -- or deacons or father figures or whatever they're called -- would fully support his condemning me to hell. Of course they would. But I think they might be chagrined to know their pastor is out here on the 'Net picking fights -- go back and read the order of hopw this escalation escalated -- AND violating people's privacy, AND being so personally vindictive -- all in he same breath in which he accuses me. I'd think that even a fundamentalist church board -- especially a fundamentalist church board! -- would be dismayed.

And Pastor Timothy wonders why he can't get more than 50-something people to come hear him preach. (So noted by himself on his own blog.)
 

He's taken my name down. And he's left his bile up -- which is fine, great even, because it says so much more about him than it does me. :-) Knock yourself out, Pastor.
 

Your insulin could be attached to your computer. Call one of 'em geek squad fellers to booby-trap your 'puter so that ever' time you attempt to long into Timmy-doo-dah's (or is that Timmy-doo-doo?) blog, yer 'puter'll zap the livin' poop out of ya.
 

Ya might be on to somethin' there, Teditor.
 

Don't PT's problems make you think of that song by Don Francisco: The Steeple Song?
One of the verses, if I remember correctly said something to the effect of

if you preach love and truth, men are going to come to you

Sorry if it's a bad paraphrase - it's been years since I've heard that song (I used to know it by heart).
 

Whoa! Karen! Dudette! I hadn't thought of Don Francisco in years! He's one of the ones I played that got me fired from the Gospel radio station. Not Southern Gospely enough! LOL


GREAT MESSAGE:


Steeple Song
by Don Francisco

I don't care how many buses you own
Or the size of your sanctuary
It doesn't matter how steep your steeple is
If it's sittin' on a cemetery
I don't care if you pave your parking lot
Or put pads upon your pews
What good is picture perfect stage
If you're missin' all the cues?

I don't care if your pastor's super-powered
And your program's always new
What you need is love and truth
And men are going to come to you
It doesn't matter that you know the Bible
If it's all just in your head
The thing I need to ask you is
Have you done the things I said?

Do you love your wife?
For her and for your children
Are you layin' down your life?
What about the others?
Are you livin' as a servant to
Your sisters and your brothers?
Do you make the poor man beg you for a bone?
Do the widow and the orphan cry alone?

I don't care if you pray for miracles
I don't care if you speak with tongues
I don't care if you said you love Me
In every song you've sung
It doesn't matter that your sacrifice of praise
Is loud enough to raise the dead
The thing I need to ask you is
Have you done the things I said?

Repeat Chorus

Lord, when were You a prisoner
That we did not come to You?
When was it that we saw You sick
That we didn't follow through
Every time you turned your head
And pretended not to see
When you did it not to the least of these
You did it not to Me

Do you love your wife?
With all you've got inside you
Are you layin' down your life?
What about the others?
Are you living as a servant
To your sisters and your brothers?
Do you make the poor man beg you for a bone?
Do the widow and the orphan cry alone?
 

Wow, DF was considered to be not Gospely enough - he had the gift to write songs that actually taught you the bible verse and gave the sermon that went with it - always showing God's heart for people, and His great compassion - I learned more from DF in the 80s than from some pastors. He was a God-send to a new Christian like me. For years certain verses had his melodies attached to them.

Another personal fav went something like this:

I don't care where you've been sleeping
I don't care who's made your bed,
I already gave My life to set you free,
There's so sin you could imagine
That is stronger than My love
If you'll....and come right back again to me (?).

Oh, and the Mary Magdalene song, and the one in the voice of the thief on the cross, being told by Jesus that "before the sun goes down, you'll be with me in Paradise", and then the song shifts and he's in Paradise, and you feel like you're right there too!

Sorry , having a memory surge - and blathering on.
Well, this has helped lift my spirits (along with the glass of good wine I'm drinking)
Thanks for finding the lyrics...
 

:-)
 

Long stupid day in blogland.

Anyone who cares to join me, please do:

Lord, I pray for peace for Timothy, his wife and chillum, his extended family and his church. Peace on 'em all, in Jesus's name. Amen.
 

ER, That is nice that you would pray for Timothy. That will soften both your hearts toward each other. Have a good night!
 

Thanks, Mom2. I wadn't even mad at the jughead until he posted my name. Even then, I didn't damn him to hell. I wish he'd return the favor. :-)

I DID, however, intend to let people in ER Land know how a pastor had judged me, rebuked me and treated me in general. And so I did.

Imagine if I were either l-o-s-t LOST, or weak in my faith. ... On the other hand, this whole post and thread is the problem with hyperjudgmental hyperfundamentalism, as it condemns non fundamentalist followers of Jesus, in microcosm.
 

Remember it is Calvin:
A few are Chosen.
You can only get there if you are chosen.
Sort of like those pick-up basket ball games or getting kids for red Rover, you have to be chosen, else you don't play.
You be kickin against the pricks with this one.

Speaking of the chosen: that was a hot hot hot Saving Grace episode tonight. Where the heck are they headed? There's a lot of buried mythology in that show! Bull balls indeed.
 

CRAP! I FORGOT ABOUT "SAVING GRACE"! I'm going in there right now to find out when it's on next.

I canNOT believe I forgot. ...
 

ER, I was wrong when I questioned your Christianity. I know that is between you and your God. I will no longer make such a statement. I also told Timothy he should question your faith. Whatever differences you, Tim, and I have will be settled in the hereafter. Then, and only then, will we all know the whole, God's honest truth. Until then, all any of us can do is pray for each other that we may learn to be patient with each other, and learn to love each other in spite of our differences, and that we all come to know God's will for our lives whatever it is, and to understand that none of us knows everything about God or His ways. Peace.
 

And unto you.
 

Mark,

I'm very impressed with your most recent post. It caught me off guard a little, but I'm happy to see it.
 

By the way, When I re-read my comment I noticed an error, but blogger decided at the timne it wasn't going to alllow me to post another comment to correct it, so I had to wait til noe to do so.

I didn't mean I told Timothy he should question your faith, I meant i told Timothy he SHOULDN'T question it.