Monday, July 02, 2007
If the president murdered someone on the White House lawn and then pardoned himself while wearing nothing but a paper Burger King crown ...
... I might be surprised.
Nothing short of that -- not waking up in the morning to find we are at war in Iran, or that Mexico has been declared the 51st state by fiat, or that marshal law has been declared in all the blue states.
Nothing else out of this administration would surprise me.
It should go without saying that if Cheney pulled the trigger in such a circumstance, and danced naked wearing nothing but a paper Burger King crown, I would not be surprised.
"Corrupt to the core" doesn't begin to say it.
Impeach Bush. Impeach Cheney.
But I don't think the Democrats have the balls to do it.
I never thought that we would have a President worse than Nixon. Even Nixon did not pardon nor commute the sentences of the three of his staff convicted on obstruction of justice. Ford did not either. GW has gone farther than even Nixon did. But he has removed the possibility that Scooter could be coerced to reveal whatever it is that they don't want revealed. Getting that annal probe to check for contraband the first day of incarceration has losen many a resolve. So did George protect Scooter or himself, or Cheney by keeping him out of jail.
By the way I wonder how many people died because the White House outed a NOC? Now who pays for that?
Speaking for myself:
Because he is a theif, a lier, and a fool.
Because he has stolen power, twice.
Because he and his cadre are hate mongers.
Because he is a threat to my country.
Because my eyes and ears and MIND are open and I use them.
Because I have killed for my country and I don't want that sacrifice to have been waisted.
Because anywhere and everywhere anybody can get 20% of the people to follow them to do anything and that has happened here in America and it must be challenged and stopped.
Because mean people suck and I don't like them!
Now that is not a complete list, but it gives some idea why Bush and his ilk will be on my short shit list until death do us part(and maybe longer than that).
But just because the Right has made a litmus test out of unthinking loyalty to Bush, don't assume that libs-lefties have. We eat our own, too. It's just that your guy is in power now -- and he makes U.S. Grant look competent, Nixon look honest and Clinton look moral.
As for the Christian thing, I'd keep my Bible holstered around here if I were you. There are people here far better versed in Scripture and church history and tradition than you or me.
Oh, wait. ou didn't actually mean folowing Jesus and tryuing to follow his example and what we know of what he said. Upu mean "Christian," as fundamentalists usually do, as an identity badge and a party label. Never mind.
Carry on. I have yard work to do between floods.
So let's look at it from that angle.
Bush genuinely appears to be the numbskull he's been portrayed as by comedians and liberals.
In ER's defense, at one time, he would've bashed Bush for being GOP alone. But I think actually he's got some legitimacy behind his complaints now. He's studied it.
By the way, have you ever noticed that people who question your Christianity never do it in a quiet email? Never mention that they're lifting your name up to God? Never point out and compliment the Godly things you do? No, it's always a way to beat you up. To make Christianity into a club is a corruption of God's essential message to mankind. I wonder why the mountains don't cry out.
Sweet cheeks, I've always refrained from any ad hoc attack until someone opens up one on me. Then I play by their rules.
You want to talk about my heart and my Christianity and try to shame me. Didn't you read the part where I have killed for my country? Hell, I am a gun loving, weapon toting, Vietnam Vet, baby killing, S.O.B., and you want to shame me? Then I have a question for you. Are you willing to dedicate your two kids (an assumption fromm the name) to fighting a decades long, dead end, pre-emptive war started by a dumb ass Democratic President sometime in the future based on the "presidence" set by the current president?
Unless we pull back this power to where it belongs it will eat us up, including you and yours.
Tech: The upside-down flag disturbs me, too; I don't display lightly. It means I think the nation is in distress and we need rescue or revolution.
God, if there is a Zephran Cochran out there, let him get his rocket up NOW, so the Vulcans can come save us from ourselves.
Teditor, I think any of the candidates would have handled the actual duties of the presidency as well as Bush (that is more than I can say about the current crop of candidates); but it's not the function of the presidency that makes me sick; it's that he has made NO effort to keep Vice President Voldemort in check; it's that he looks askance at torture, plays games with the rule of law, and led us into a war of choice, in Iraq, to the detriment of the legitimate war in Afghanistan, among other things.
Yet, last year, the Bush administration filed a friend-of-the-court brief* with the Supreme Court in an attempt to uphold a lower court's ruling that a 33 month prison sentence for Victor Rita, who was convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice, was 'reasonable.'
The questions we should all be asking ourselves today are:
Why is the President flip-flopping?
Why does Scooter Libby get special treatment?
George Bush's disregard for the rule of law is truly unbecoming a President. I'm calling on every American to flood the White House this week with phone calls and tell the President, "In 2000, when you ran for president, you promised to 'uphold the honor and dignity' of the office of President of the United States -- We're Still Waiting".
Call the White House: 202-456-1414
Mom2, your original post is erroneous on a number of points, all of them factual. There is no reason to even engage in dialogue at this point. Get your facts straight, then come back and complain about how badly the courts treated poor little Scooter.
Was that really Joe Biden who posted here? I clicked the name, and the link sent me right to Biden's website.
Wow, ER, you've got yourself some interesting readers . . .
Mom2 it is my responsibility as an American citizen, and may I say, my privilage to speak truth to power.
God can judge Bush's soul and his intent, all I have are his actions to judge. His actions are what we must stop.
The mantra is beginning to be; "Support Bush and Kill the Two Party System".
Wrong translation and out of context.
The earliest existing (about 250 c.e.) Greek manuscripts of the sermon on the mount have the phrase, "anger without cause is....". Indeed if Jesus intended that all anger be equated with murder then he was sinning when he angerly thrashed the money lenders in the temple.
My ANGER with the actions and behavior of this current administration is with cause. To not be angry with the "money changers" in Washington could be, in fact, a sin of omission.
There was no underlying crime as Pat Fitz admitted. That alone makes the jail sentence excessive. They didn't even bother to indict or try the actual leaker. That also makes the sentence excessive. Damn near everything I've seen written or heard whined about regarding Bush's disregard for the law or the Constitution has been pretty much one difference of opinion after another. All here raggin' on the man have ragged on me regarding Biblical interpretation and now allow no such differences to Bush. And I know you folks don't interpret the Constitution as I do. He hasn't stolen any election, he had grades slightly better than the opponent in the last election, he has not pardoned anyone like previous presidents. But you guys keep digging and by the time his term has elapsed, I'll bet there is still no REAL crime which you can attribute to him. Find something solid and I'll be happy to rag along with ya. Right now, there are simply policy decisions of which I disagree. But for YOU guys, it's BDS. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
No underlying crime?? I beg to differ.. there was plenty of lying going on. As evidenced by Libby. Remember that whole perjury and obstruction of justice thing? This “ no underlying crime argument” is like saying Al Capone was never convicted of murder. Therefore, his tax evasion charge should never have happened. Back in the good ol’ days, Capone went to jail for breaking the law. Libby.. errr… # 28301-016.. should do the same.
That also makes the sentence excessive
Let me get this straight.. once convicted of a crime.. the criminal is not subject to sentencing within the regulations of the law. The George Bush appointed judge handed Libby his sentence. The odd thing about this “argument” is conservatives admit that Libby did wrong when they reference the excessive sentence. After all, one has to be guilty to be sentenced.
Just a side note.. Capone pleaded guilty and was convicted on 22 counts of tax evasion. He then offered to repay back taxes and pay a fine. The judge sentenced him to 12 and a half years, of which he served 6 and a half. In other words.. Capone admitted to his crime. Libby still thinks he is innocent.
Conservatives are left chasing their wet, nappy BDS dreams. After all, what could possibly drive the nation to think Libby was actually found guilty by a jury and sentenced to prison.
Between the time he was interviewed for the investigation and the time he allegedly said what he's accused of lying about, can anyone here honestly say their memory of a conversation would be spot on? He may honestly not recall clearly enough to admit to anything, which is what was called lying. I'd like to know how they can prove he really does remember.
"After all, one has to be guilty to be sentenced."
Not even close to true. One only has to be judged guilty to be sentenced. I refer you to the introduction of Lee Stroebel's "The Case For Christ" wherein he describes the conviction of a man who was innocent of the crime for which he was arrested. Happens, unfortunately, all the time. So Libby was convicted, but that doesn't guarantee his guilt.
As none of us here can honestly say we were present when the conversation of interest took place, nor when Libby "lied" about it, we can only HOPE that justice was done. Perhaps it was. But if it was, this was still a far greater waste of time and money than the Whitewater investigation and it yielded far less for the effort. Fitz knows it. That's why it's over.
And Geoff, whaddya mean, "these people"?
Your entire comment is wrong. Period.
"These people" are people who spread the kind of errors of fact, argument, and judgment that you have demonstrated in your post. "These people" are those who ignore facts, misrepresent facts, or deny facts to further squalid, partisan ends. "These people" are people who, through their continued support of our criminal Administration, demonstrate a lack of moral judgment, as well as a certain blindness to reality, that I find honestly appalling. "These people" are people who will go to any lengths to make sure that responsibility lands anywhere but where it rests - upon the narrow shoulders and empty head of your President. "These people" are people who would rather repeat what others have said than think for themselves.
"These people" are, well, you, Marshall.
YES. I like it that way. No one has the Truth. All see through a glass darkly, on all things.
I like disagreeing with people and seeing what they think. So I try to engage them. And, prety regularly, I deliberately spur 'em on. There's no fun in agreeing all the time. :-)
Mom2 is a chicken, tho. Onvce in a great whole she pops in, leaves some generally offensive comment either directed at me, or someone else, or those damn libs -- then when it gets heated, she splits. I'd rather she stuck around.
Besides that, I am in and out of the house and just check in on you when I have nothing better to do.
Your friend Joe Biden can be as ridiculously funny as you guys. Birds of a feather flock together.
You do us a service.
By the way the White House today said the commutation was a "routine" matter. They simply can't keep from lying any more.
You're filled with such knowledge and insight. *cough*
I won't list the policies with which Dubya and I disagree. Approval ratings tell you what you want to hear. There are some things Bush has done since he won legitimately in 2000 that I totally agree with and other things not so much. But if you want to put me in some little group because I insist on some kind of real proof to back up claims of criminality, shredding of the Constitution, greed, self-interest, lying about getting us into war, and all the other deranged accusations, much of which comes from opponents with more skeletons in THEIR closet, why you just go ahead. I just consider the source and say have a nice day. The whole Bush admin is evil stuff is just really boring now. And this Libby situation is just another Bush-hatin' attempt at taking the slightest little piece of crap and trying to make it a huge, heaping pile of dung. Bush haters are still trying to reverse 2000. Get the hell over it.
Either you are not paying attention or you are deceitful. I will assume the former.
This is no longer about party or ideology or God or baseball or gay marriage or tax cuts for the rich or anything else. The commutation of I. Lewis Libby's sentence for felonious perjury and obstruction of justice is a direct attack upon the balance of powers, this time directed at the judiciary. Congress is already yellow, spineless, and gutless, the Democrats afraid for so reason or reasons that Bush or the press might say bad things about them if they do their jobs. The Republicans are so far inside the lower intestine of Karl Rove it's a wonder they can see at all. We now have definitive proof that Bush has no regard for anything other than his own power. He and his people cannot govern. They cannot conduct foreign policy. They cannot direct Administrative agencies to fulfill their legally mandated functions without interference.
Please, if you would, name just one thing - ONE THING - that the Bush Administration has done for the country as a whole. Just one. One positive thing.
The sonofabitch had me expecting mushroom clouds on this continent at the hand of Saddam. I will never forgive him. So, Mom2, maybe I do have a little real hate in my heart. It keeps me warm.
The only good he's doen is remind a bunch of people that it really is important who we hand power to in the country. How soon we forget ...
Why thanks Morshill, I guess I am pretty smart for a Pig's Ass and as you say, yada, yada, yada, yada!
"One positive thing."
Here's two right off the top:
Tax cuts for every American who pays 'em. Good for the economy, which, after major hurricanes, war on two fronts, a major attack on our shores, is doing quite well, thank you very much.
And the appointments of two fine Justices to the Supreme Court. Now it is far less likely that we'll soon be treated to the type of goofy, agenda driven decisions that have given us Roe v Wade.
Two deceptive Supreme Court justices who managed to lie their way past a fixed Senate Judiciary Committee. Two radical justices who are not "strict constructionists" or practitioners of judicial restraint, but activist reactionaries whose decisions have overturned precedent after precedent, most recently threatening Brown v Board of Education.
The facts just don't add up here. I'm still waiting for just one action this President has taken that has benefited all Americans.
The silver lining to all this is that Bush saved Libby’s kids. I mean really, what a heart on the guy. Prison is not only hard on the felon.. its tough on the family unit. Its just nice to see Bush recognize this. The cold hard costs of lockdown go far beyond the brick and mortar of those 24 inch thick walls. Imagine the trauma of Scooter Jr. having to only see Pops on the weekend.
Btw, there are some really great essays floating around right now on our prision system.
Finally, I cant wait for the full pardon. Then Libby will be able to vote again. Hey, every vote counts!
"By "no underlying crime" it is meant that though he allegedly lied during an investigation..."
So, that means since there was no underlying crime behind Clinton's perjury, that you were opposed to his impeachment?
Well, good for you for having some integrity and consistency!
Most "conservatives" think perjuring one's self about a personal matter (not related to the trial at hand) is one of the most horrendous things in the world (while lying about war crimes or treason is not so bad, as long as it's a "conservative" committing the perjury).
Lighten up, you guys! Do you believe in a God that created the world and will control it until He comes again? Read His Word, a lot of this going on was prophesied. All the love that I have heard talked about, sure has not been displayed on this site. If it sounds like hate, walks like hate, it must be hate, heh?
1. The sincerity
2. The logic
3. The sanity
4. The love
of those who thus twist words.
Lighten up, indeed, sister mother.
And, look around: Does it look like God is "in control" of man? No. He's not. Even your own fundamentalist take on things admits that.
And if you think Bush is righteaous, or even what he professes to be ... just what god do you worship?
BTW, you *should* be afraid to leave the house. Your party and fundamentalist, in-your-face, end-times, Bible-worshiping, unthinking "Christianity" have made this a scary damned country.
As for this: "Read His Word, a lot of this going on was prophesied." Give me a break. That's comic-book, "Left Behind" type fiction.
Re, "All the love that I have heard talked about, sure has not been displayed on this site. If it sounds like hate, walks like hate, it must be hate, heh?"
Mom2, either you are plain garden-variety ignorant, or a liar just like the president. If love means bending over and taking it up the backside with a smile, then your're right. No love here for the president, the GOP or its warmongering dupes.
And no love here for a false faith that waves the Bible around like a sword, and uses Scripture like an IED but keeps the Prince of Peace tied to a chair in a back room, bound and gagged.
Yes, I believe in a God that created the world.
No, I don't believe he controls it.
That is not even biblical, nor logical.
Until he (God) comes again? You mean he left? He left us and went away? Are you a Unitarian? I thought he was still here with me. No, I don't believe he is coming again, he has never been gone. The Kingdom of God is already here. Now if you are waiting for the Government of God, you've got a long wait indeed.