Thursday, April 26, 2007
Mr. Dr. ER? Or the Rev. ER?
When I started this humble blog in the fall of ought-4, at first it was just "Erudite Redneck." Before long, bein' as how I was in the throes of my last semester of grad school, I stuck "B.S., B.S. (M.A.)" in the header to signify my two bachelor's degrees, journalism (news editorial) and political science (public affairs), and my soon-to-be-completed master's degree in history. The parentheses came off the day I walked across the stage and got that extra sheepskin, at age 40. Now, I face the potentially enjoyable prospect of returnin' yet again to the ivory towers. I mean, it could happen. This whole movin'-to-Colorado thing is such a radical departure from what I've been doin' the past 20 years -- daily news and editing and weekly commentary, in Texas and in Oklahoma -- that I might as well go for it. (That was my senior class motto in high school: "Go For It!" We were not very creative. But we did, most of us, work hard, and play hard.)
So, what to do?The biggest part of me wants to go on for the Ph.D in history, if I'm able. The University of Colorado's program is very competitive. But so am I, and I have a pretty dang hefty resume/c.v.
The downside: There is no market for Ph.D's in history, and I almost assuredly would make less money after completing the thing, if I tried to use it in the classroom, than I make now. On the other, although I did enjoy having charge of political science lab for a semester back in the day, teaching is not why I got the M.A. I got it to gain the ability, and the bare minimum credential, to research and write history.
But another part of me, almost as big, wants to go to seminary. Go ahead and laugh. In the real world, everybody laughs, involuntarily, in my face, when I tell them of my interest in theological studies, so it's OK if y'all do, too. Really. It seems crazy to me, too.But, I am interested. My mission field? The Christian Alumni Association -- those who have "graduated" from the faith, they think, to a more rational, secular view of life, those who have abandoned their faith, actually, when what they really just needed to do was update their views of the church, church traditions, the Bible and, well, most doctrines as handed down to us by our Christian forefathers and foremothers. Iliff School of Theology is in Denver, and from everything I've read about it, it's right up my alley.
The job market there is better. There is no glut of ministers in the mainline churches. At least I don't think there is. Then again, it's research and writing that mainly interests me, academic thrology, not necesarrily ministering in the usual sense.
On the other hand, there's, you know, the whole God thing. She/He wants me to have a job, I'll get a job.
But that would be true of a Rev. ER *or* a Mr. Dr. ER (not to be confused, see, with Dr. ER).
Discuss. :-)
--ER
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Well, you know I'm not laughing at the idea. Never did. I have considered seminary since I became a Christian in high school, 'round about 37 years ago, when you were just a little bittybaby. The two seminaries I have considered are St. Paul's in Kansas City and Iliff. I think you should do it.
I'm not laughing, either. Ever since I've known you, you've had a leaning that way. It's time to do something about it.
Crystal
Crystal
# posted by 
: 10:05 AM
: 10:05 AM
Well son if your gonna go that way go for the Ph.D. in Theology at Iliff. In fact I would think you should consider doing a Ph.D. (s) in History and Theology at both schools there. I don't see you as a "Pastor", "Preacher", or "Minister", but I can see you up in front of a class, or lecture hall, or at a book signing for your new book "The Remenants of the Ghost Dance Cult in Anglo-Baptist Churches in Idaho.".
Now if your "stated mission field is the Christian Alumni Association," you're going to have to go after them intellectually. They are already inurred to the fire and brimestone and pleas of passion.
On the otherhand the history of relgion in the western U.S. is an almost untouched field.
If you just want a job, then stay with what you are doing. If you want a career then go stricly academic. But if you think you have a calling, then go see where the voice is coming from. (Sometimes Lithium or Prozac will take care of those voices. On the other hand.... and oh yes, also remember that sometimes burning bushes are just creosote bushes ignited by a spark)
As for $$$$, well God will provide.
That may sound strange coming from a cynic such as myself, but I have noticed that God always seems to have a special funding source for his wierdos, fools, and crazies, that he calls on to do his special works. Apply for his funds, you may qualify. I'll stand as a reference for you.
Now if your "stated mission field is the Christian Alumni Association," you're going to have to go after them intellectually. They are already inurred to the fire and brimestone and pleas of passion.
On the otherhand the history of relgion in the western U.S. is an almost untouched field.
If you just want a job, then stay with what you are doing. If you want a career then go stricly academic. But if you think you have a calling, then go see where the voice is coming from. (Sometimes Lithium or Prozac will take care of those voices. On the other hand.... and oh yes, also remember that sometimes burning bushes are just creosote bushes ignited by a spark)
As for $$$$, well God will provide.
That may sound strange coming from a cynic such as myself, but I have noticed that God always seems to have a special funding source for his wierdos, fools, and crazies, that he calls on to do his special works. Apply for his funds, you may qualify. I'll stand as a reference for you.
Hell, I'd laugh right directly in your face, ER, because you crack me up. I've done so many times, even when our cubicles were next to one another's.
But Dr. Lobo is right. Find what makes you happy, and with God firmly attached to your heart and soul, He will help provide for you.
You've started the process, now complete it. Pray about it. Talk to Dr. ER about it. Talk to your minister about it, and, with God's help, follow your calling, whether its still in journalism or into education or into theology.
Most of all, my friend, be happy
But Dr. Lobo is right. Find what makes you happy, and with God firmly attached to your heart and soul, He will help provide for you.
You've started the process, now complete it. Pray about it. Talk to Dr. ER about it. Talk to your minister about it, and, with God's help, follow your calling, whether its still in journalism or into education or into theology.
Most of all, my friend, be happy
My first thought was "why not do both," so i'm with drlobojo. Whether you do them simultaneously or sequentially would then be the decision, of course.
Whatever you decide, I can definitely imagine you professing. Adjuncting, maybe, in addition to writing?
Whatever you decide, I can definitely imagine you professing. Adjuncting, maybe, in addition to writing?
Go for it! Why in the world would I laugh? Iliff is a UM seminary, by the way . . .
Do what you feel God is calling you to do, always knowing there are no guarantees in this life except for the ending, and only that it will come. Pray, think, discuss - but if you decide to go, hell, I might just join up. Been wanting to finish that old "Piled Higher and Deeper" my own self.
Do what you feel God is calling you to do, always knowing there are no guarantees in this life except for the ending, and only that it will come. Pray, think, discuss - but if you decide to go, hell, I might just join up. Been wanting to finish that old "Piled Higher and Deeper" my own self.
Gee, y'all are swell.
Dr. ER said I should just do both.
Drlobojo, you cracked me *up* with the Ghost Dance reference -- but that is zactly the kind of thing I could get into.
Also, while I think the religious aspects of the "European-Native American encounter" have been done, among my interests is how the mostly Yankee missionaries helped shape the Southern tribes up to and through Removal, Oklahoma statehood and to the present, actually -- and the late contradiction between the piety of the first converts compared to the present generation, regarding gambling.
It's gambling. Not gaming. It's their business. Not mine. But John Jumper, Allen Wright, et al. are spinnin' in their graves.
Dr. ER said I should just do both.
Drlobojo, you cracked me *up* with the Ghost Dance reference -- but that is zactly the kind of thing I could get into.
Also, while I think the religious aspects of the "European-Native American encounter" have been done, among my interests is how the mostly Yankee missionaries helped shape the Southern tribes up to and through Removal, Oklahoma statehood and to the present, actually -- and the late contradiction between the piety of the first converts compared to the present generation, regarding gambling.
It's gambling. Not gaming. It's their business. Not mine. But John Jumper, Allen Wright, et al. are spinnin' in their graves.
There are SO many history/religion overlaps, on many of the topics you're peculiarly interested in, you could have a fine second career exploring, teaching and writing. Shoot, if we get you to Iliff, you could probably do a bunch of stuff on the UM circuit riders. And the things that followed. And stuff like that. And now into the present-day trends on exclusion vs. open doors. And more stuff like that.
DO IT.
DO IT.
Hey ER,
My experience as a more traditional grad student in the sciences was that the non-traditional graduate students (especially the ones with grown or nearly grown kids) enjoyed grad school much more and did well. Without the pressure "to get on with life" they also took a little longer, but this might be part of why they could enjoy it. And, I could see you teaching, from what I see here.
I have also knew several folks (mostly engineers) who left a traditional career far behind to be pastors. Not all ended up in front of congregations, and I don't see why you would either.
Have you thought about just trying to write a book or work on one that is started?
My experience as a more traditional grad student in the sciences was that the non-traditional graduate students (especially the ones with grown or nearly grown kids) enjoyed grad school much more and did well. Without the pressure "to get on with life" they also took a little longer, but this might be part of why they could enjoy it. And, I could see you teaching, from what I see here.
I have also knew several folks (mostly engineers) who left a traditional career far behind to be pastors. Not all ended up in front of congregations, and I don't see why you would either.
Have you thought about just trying to write a book or work on one that is started?
ER, there must be somthing terribly wrong with my advice. At least 4 people have agreed with it at least in part. I feel so ...so...mainstream.
Thanks, Henry. I *do* actually have a book in the works that I plan on adding a chapter to this summer.
Drlobojo, I'd say that bein' in the mainstream of the bunch that hangs around here still leaves ya on the margins. :-)
Drlobojo, I'd say that bein' in the mainstream of the bunch that hangs around here still leaves ya on the margins. :-)
OK. Here's a question. I took the GRE 15 years ago. The results are expired basically.
Should I take a class to prepare for it? Costs $1,149 through Kaplan.
Dr. ER says such classes are "a crock." But I took one last time and felt a lot better about taking the test ... History programs require only the general test, no subject tests. ...
Maybe I could take it, and if I didn't like the score, then I could decide. But, do they let you keep taking it until you get a score you like??
Should I take a class to prepare for it? Costs $1,149 through Kaplan.
Dr. ER says such classes are "a crock." But I took one last time and felt a lot better about taking the test ... History programs require only the general test, no subject tests. ...
Maybe I could take it, and if I didn't like the score, then I could decide. But, do they let you keep taking it until you get a score you like??
Don't waste your money on the class. If you don't like your score, you'll know the areas you were weak in and can work on those for the next test. You'll do fine. After all, you have Dr. E.R. to help you figure it out.
I believe ... I believe ... I believe I will ponder this over a coldbeer at the RedHawks game tonight (Texas Rangers triple-A here in OKC) ...
Y'all talk amongst yerselfs. :-)
Y'all talk amongst yerselfs. :-)
Those prep courses are a waist of money. Kaplans are Krooks. You can do as well checking out books at the library on the test and looking them over.
The only thing you will need to get familiar with is their style of question. I may be wrong but I think the ETS lost the GRE contract years ago and it is now with ACT. So it won't be the same thing any more.
Bone up on the way of the test. The information you have.
The only thing you will need to get familiar with is their style of question. I may be wrong but I think the ETS lost the GRE contract years ago and it is now with ACT. So it won't be the same thing any more.
Bone up on the way of the test. The information you have.
ER - you only know me from comments, I only know you from your blog. Go for it. Skip the class on the GRE, I did, and passed fine, and I was a mediocre student before grad school.
My mom, at age 65 completed an MDiv, and took on pastering a church. At age 75, she moved to another one, albeit part time - at least part time salery.
The age thing is a strength you and I are about the same age, I think. Go for the PhD. Grab it, and do what you want. You should be able to get a few years in a class room out of it, and if you like it, no reason to leave it. If God brings you something better, so be it.
My mom, at age 65 completed an MDiv, and took on pastering a church. At age 75, she moved to another one, albeit part time - at least part time salery.
The age thing is a strength you and I are about the same age, I think. Go for the PhD. Grab it, and do what you want. You should be able to get a few years in a class room out of it, and if you like it, no reason to leave it. If God brings you something better, so be it.
Thanks, Jim r.
James Inhofe *is* a U.S. Senator from Oklahoma, yes. And he is a buffoon and an idgit. As an Oklahoman, may I offer my apologies.
James Inhofe *is* a U.S. Senator from Oklahoma, yes. And he is a buffoon and an idgit. As an Oklahoman, may I offer my apologies.
This is Dr. ER. I don't want to have to "verify my address" with Goodgle, so I'll post anonymously. DrJo, I told him the EXACT same thing as you did and he didn't believe me.
# posted by : 12:33 PM
: 12:33 PM
Yeah, I totally agree, go for it. You can never have too much learning, and it's clearly what you love.
Reverend Redneck! Tee hee hee. I'll have the giggles all weekend.
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Reverend Redneck! Tee hee hee. I'll have the giggles all weekend.
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