Saturday, December 23, 2006


Full inclusion of GLTB in church?

First: Merry Christmas Eve Eve! Mama ER is in quite a bit of tummy and bobo pain today, mainly because of the feeding tube. They are going to take a looksee tomorrow, which means, at least for today, she gets a pass on eating and being fussed at for not. -- ER

Now, some red meat.

By Michael Westmoreland-White
at his blog, Levellers

Homosexuality is a modern term first coined (in German) in the 1860s and given an English equivalent a few years later. This is the first time in the Western world that the idea of people intrinsically attracted to their own sex develops. Thus, modern translations of the Bible which use the term "homosexual," are anachronistic. There was no ancient or biblical concept for what we call "homosexuality." ...

Read all about it.

From the Covenant of Openness and Affirmation of my church:

We know, with Jesus, that we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, and that those neigbors include all human beings - encompassing our families, our Church, all other churches and faiths, and the world at large.

We also know that both society and the larger community of faith have often scorned, excluded, attempted "cures", and condemned lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people in the name of Jesus, in the name of the Bible, and in the name of religious doctrine.

Read all about it.

Pas, y'all!

Yawn ...
Bite it. :-)
C'mon, man, it's a rerun. You're flogging the homosexuality issue as much as you acccuse us fundies of doing it.

Red meat is great, but make it fresh.
call it what you will. i honestly consider this the most important issue facing the church in our lifetime -- i mean, as far as who "gets" to be a Christian.

GLBT people are the slaves-women-blacks-Indians of our time. you flog it the Conservative Church's way, i'll flog it Jesus's way. :-)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I've never said homosexuals don't "get" to be Christians. Nor would the church I attend turn them away at the door. Nor would I attend it if it did.

Sin does not disqualify someone from Christianity. Actually, it's kind of a requirement. So I don't believe it's a matter of losing salvation for engaging in homosexuality -- any more than I lose my salvation when I lie or gossip or whatever. The difference is, hopefully, I repent and am forgiven of those sins.

My view on it is, though, no one who is truly living with the spirit of the Lord in them would be satisfied living homosexually over the long haul. Again, any more than I am "satisfied" commiting any of the scores of sins I'm prone to. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our sins ... and from there repentance and forgiveness flow.

You can parse Jesus any way you want to, but I think even you you have to admit He did not/does not wink at sin. You can argue homosexuality isn't a sin -- I'd disagree with you -- but to say that because we live under grace we have license to sin all we want just ain't right. Paul said so -- although off the top of my head I can't remember if Paul is one of the Biblical authors whose works you blow off because he discusses something other than "if it feels good, do it."

So, a long rambling way of me saying that I don't think being gay keeps anyone out of heaven. Refusing Jesus keeps people out of heaven. And I have a hard time believing anyone can truly live with Jesus in his heart and be comfortable living homosexually. Ultimately, that ain't my decision to make -- but given what God's word has to say on the subject, I'm pretty comfortable where I come down on the issue.
The Laodicians were comfortable.

Cheap shots ignored.

I'll be as clear as I know how:

The phrase "living homosexually," in this context -- that is, homosexuality, a state of being, being one thing, and sexually licentious behavior being another -- makes about as much sense as "living whitely" or "living Indianly" or "living womanly."

You don't even get the fine point of the debate.

Oh, and send me a copy of God's Word sometime. I've read the Bible. I'm rereading it now. Show me something "infallible" in this imperfect world, where even Jesus fussed with those who called even Him "good" -- "none," he said, "but God in heaven" is good -- and I'll show you superstition and biblioidolatry.

Jesus saves.

Save Jesus.
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