Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

I posted this back in March:
".....There are no key words in that particular post Anonomouse. Besides that NSA (and the FBI and ASA) already knows who, what , and where I am anyway. We've know each other a long time. Their files on me run 42 years deep.
But why don't you through a bunch of key words into one of your postings and they will get to know you too. You see "Anon" doesn't hide you from those guys.
Actually you don't have to do even that. Just being on the same blog with me means your taggged and explored. I told ER that before I ever logged on here. He thought that since we were clean it wouldn't matter. Are you clean Anonomouse?
# posted by drlobojo : 2:13 PM "

Betcha thought I was braggin or nuts. You see, even this latest "revelation" isn't all there is to know about what's happening to you. There is much much more.
 

So you think this is a new story?

CQ HOMELAND SECURITY – INTELLIGENCE
April 14, 2006 – 7:40 p.m.

To Spy Veteran, Ma Bell’s Alleged Role in NSA Wiretapping Has Familiar Ring

......As a longtime telecommunications technician, Klein said he knew exactly what he was looking at in the AT&T facility. He says it destroyed any faith he had that the Bush administration was being careful not to intrude into law-abiding Americans’ privacy in its hunt for terrorists’ Internet and phone traffic.

“Based on my understanding of the connections and equipment at issue,” Klein said in his affidavit, “it appears the NSA is capable of conducting what amounts to vacuum-cleaner surveillance of all the data crossing the Internet — whether that be peoples’ e-mail, Web surfing or any other data.”

“Despite what we are hearing, and considering the public track record of this administration,” Klein added, “I simply do not believe [the Bush administration’s] claims that the NSA’s spying program is really limited to foreign communications . . .

“And unlike the controversy over targeted wiretaps of individuals’ phone calls,” he said, “this potential spying appears to be applied wholesale to all sorts of Internet communications of countless citizens.”

Cautionary Tale for Whistleblower
All of this is quite amusing to Kaiser, whose autobiography, “Odyssey of an Eavesdropper: My Life in Electronic Countermeasures and My Battle Against the FBI,” was published to underwhelming acclaim last fall.....

Read it all:
http://public.cq.com/public/20060414_homeland.html
 

Collecting phone numbers-- not conversations... I don't see a problem here. Especially since cell phone records are readily available... for sale.
 

Of course they are collecting conversations. Their phone number pattern and traffic analysis computer programs just tell them the phone number and times etc. of which conversation they should recover from their wide band recordings of all phone conversation in the U.S. and listen to.
What did you think they were collecting phone number for?
So they could call someone?
 

This whole damn country is the proverbial live frog sitting at the bottom of a pot with the water getting warmer by the say.

And the regency that surrrounds George W. Bush has it hands on the knob that controls the flame.
 

ER, You are aware that the NSA Database program that you are so offended by was started in 1998, aren't you?

Not only that, but your favorite impeached pervert former President drastically expanded the Echelon program, which, unlike the program that has made you sick today, actually DOES monitor content, and all that happened during a time of PEACE.

It's just like all of the other made-up scandals and phoney outrage that WE have grown exceedingly weary of hearing from you guys.

You are screaming now about programs that for the most part, YOUR side started, and it was all just perfectly fine-hunkey-dorey until it occured to someone that it could be spun to make GWB look bad.

Oh, ER, I've got a question for you...

Do you find the timing of this new "Leak" a little odd?

Right before Mike Hayden is to begin Confirmation Hearings we get new news of an outrage by the Bush Administration and Hayden was in on this one from the start?

Do you get weary of being led around by the nose? Do you even recognize that it is happening?
 

Re, "1998"

This ain't 1998: "AT&T Corp., Verizon Communications Inc., and BellSouth Corp. telephone companies began turning over records of tens of millions of their customers' phone calls to the NSA program shortly after Sept. 11, 2001 ..."
 

Perfect damn timing for the leak, Tug. Perfect timing.

Amd quit being such a jerk. I railed against Clinton for NAFTA-SHAFTA then and now; I bitched about some other of his policies then and now. If I'd KNOWN about this stuff then, I'da been just as mortified.

Believe it or not.

One thing's for sure, you have no idea what I was thinking or saying about President Clinton then. So get off the subject and get off my back.

And to use and exend your own metaphor: It beats havin' my nose up my party's himd end, like you apparently do.
 

Actually guys the intercept program started in 1968 with an excutive order to enable the Feds to track Vietnam war opposition, the weather Men, the SLA, Martin Luther King etc. and was uncovered by Congress in 1976 and thus the 1977 FISA act and court were created to stop the wanton aspects of it but to keep the system intact. Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, GH Bush, Bubba, and GW all have had to re-authorized it upon their election.
It has not been a secret really, it has only been below the threshold of public recognition.
Even with this current "revelation" I have not heard even one reporter ask, "What do you guys do when you do find a pattern of calls?" Is that because they are stupid? Is that because the are affraid of going to jail?
Where is this vaunted forth estate?

If you take the time the above can be verified by reputable source even on the web.

So what's new? Bush does not honor the FISA law as it is, even though it is a weak ass law to start with. That's the problem, he is above the law.
Tug the Smug, ER the Eruodite, and everybody else on either side of the body politic should understand that YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY and GW has simply raised the ante a bit.
WE BE SCREWED. GET USED TO IT. It WILL NOT BE UN-DONE.

The only saving grace is they can't hire enough people to watch and listen to everybody all the time. So they rely on computers to sort the wheat from the chaff.
 

That IS the point: Bush has put himself above the law.

Impeach! Impeach! And his little dog, too! And the fake horse he rode in on!
 

Oh, I think the White House press corps is part of the damn problem in this country. It's always been a lapdog, and it's alwyas been regarded as a plum assignment. Nowadays, ALL of them are media "stars,"not working press.

There IS no fourth estate anymore. Hell, there's really only TWO branches of government, since Congress has lopped off its own balls.

Thank God Almighty for the judiciary.
 

Part of the Church Report citing the Telecommunications companies' cooperation with NSA under project SHAMROCK 1946 to 1974. This is part of the Report that led to FISA.

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIj.htm

It is long, but it will show:
1. NSA did collect messages originating from America to America, as well as to and from America from overseas.
2. The telecommunications industry handed over all messages in bulk that were requested by NSA starting in 1946
3. Everybody was worried about the legality from day one.

Remember this report is 30 years old. Things have changed, but not for the better.
 

Shmoo schmuck.
 

I said "damned," an adjective, not an expletive. Call me a grammar Nazi.

And GWB will be damned by posterity for violating his oath of office, his pledge to uphold and defend the Constitution.
 

I think Jorge is a nice fella. Kinda funny, too.

I'd be happy to shake his hand. 'Course, he didn't bag Monica Lewinski, so maybe I shouldn't worship him.

Hi, ER. How is ya?
 

Don't know what you mean, d.dad. FDR remains as the greatest president this country has ever had.

He and the New Dealers SAVED capitalism.
 

Hey, Teditor! Yer a hoot(er)!
 

drlobojo reminds me of a few people I've known through the years. Whatever the subject she's been there and done it all. If we added up all the times, dates and bragging she throws out there she'd have to be 200 years old to be telling the truth. A legend in her own mind!
 

I like that anonmouse. It fits fine. I sneek in the cracks of the blog. What I can't chew up I shit on.
 

"FDR remains as the greatest president this country has ever had.

He and the New Dealers SAVED capitalism." Says ER.

No, ER, he and the New Dealers started Socialism in America.

The beginning of the end for the American Dream.

The World would have been much better off without FDR, and the messes that he inflicted upon America low these 60 Years hence.

FDR and the WWII Generation figured out how to vote themselves money from their Great-Grandchildren's paychecks, and they continue to do so.

They fought Communism, Socialism, and Fascism overseas, and then Gleefully imported it all to corrupt the American System.

Maybe when they and the children that they raised are all dead, and their Drug Culture Hippie Grandchildren finally pass into irrellevence, we can begin to repair the damage that was done to our Country by their flawed Ideology.

I won't live to see that happen, but that won't stop me from praying for it, though...
 

Tugster, you become more of a caricature every day.
 

Anonimouse 6:22 is right, it feels about like 200 years. It does remind me of the Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times." For what it's worth I am at least pre-atomic.
 

DD said:
"FDR
Do you think he followed the constitution during WWII?
Internment camps, anyone?"

Under the ruling of the SCOUS in Korematsu v. United States the answer is yes FDR upheld the Constitution. He was wrong but he wasn't unconstitutional.
 

make that SCOTUS
 

Holy crap! Tugboat, that bile's gonna eat up your esophagus.

What the heck do you think FDR et al. DID to save capitalism? "He and the New Dealers started Socialism in America." That's not too far from the truth, although it is not the truth. The Socialists HATED FDR because of his haf-measures. State capitalism is one thing, they said; socialism is the whole hog.

And why don't you go down to the DAV and spew about those selfish WWII veterans? Your rage is blinding you, man.

And once again, Tugboat is practicing economics without a license. It's funny and sad to watch all at the same time.
 

Rage!?

That's all I see here.... Rage, and foaming at the mouth.

The country's going to hell in a handbasket! Bush is destoying our civil liberties! He's a lawbreaker! Impeach the man! He's making a list! Checking it twice! Trying to find out hoo's notty and nice! And we're not gonna stand for it!!!! Good grief!

I'm tired of hearing Dem's accuse Repub's for buying into the lies and distortions foisted on the American public by the administration, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc. et al.... and for generally being nothing more than harpies and lickspittles for the corrupt Republican congress and Republican administration.....

I'll say it again... Good Grief!!! Look in the mirror boys! It's exactly the same on your side of the political fence. I see nothing but ill-tempered harpies, and foul mouthed lickspittles with lips firmly planted on the butts of such buffoons as Olbermann, Matthews, CNN, Pelosi, and the hideously droll and morose Reid! What a bunch of liars the Democratic party is! Oh, the depths to which they have sunk!!!!!

Does anyone realize that the USA today piece was not even a new story?!? The New York Times first told the world about this on Dec 24, 2005. This WAS a timed re-hashed hatchet-job drummed up by the Left for the very purpose of casting doubt on the confirmation of Mr. Hayden.

Democrats and the press, under the hypocritical and disingenuous auspices of "serving the publics' best interests" have, since the beginning of this current administrations tenure, sought to bring down George W. Bush. It's Tit for Tat. We did it to your man Clinton and by god it's your turn to do it to our guy George. Well go for it! Drag us all into the toilet while you're at it! Praise the leakers of national security! Heap Pulitzer's on them! Stand them up as model Americans! -- while glossing over the whole treason thing... They're nothing but hypocrites... everyone of them!

I am sick to death of politics, and I am sick to death of idiots who parrot everything coming out of the mouths of their favored false-RhetOrators.

Want to know what's really killing this country? It's people like us, bitching about the other side for no other HONEST reason than because we hate the other side! Deny it if you wish, I'm tired of it all. And right now? I just don't care anymore.

But therein lies my problem... I can't stop caring! Who else besides me, and others like me, will defend the truth?

Ahhh, don't bother!!! I see the mirror! Why can't you ?!?!?!
 

ELash, that was an awesome rant. Heartfelt. And you managed to pull it off without attacking me, or any other everyday person, personally. Thank you.

Your point is well taken. I HOLD MY NOSE when I vote Dem. The extremists on the Left make want to puke. But what am I supposed to do? The extremists on the right make me want to shoot myself!

One thing, though, you are dead on -- DEAD ON -- right about: "We did it to your man Clinton and by god it's your turn to do it to our guy George."

The fact that Dubya so puts himself above the law turns the desire for political revenge into a genuine pursuit of justice.

If I were you, I'd take a break. Me, I have suspended by God-given, constitutionally protected (so far) ability to take a public stand on virtually all public issues and public affairs for 20 years, as a consequence of my decision to work as a journalist.

I've set aside my own biases, as much as any man can, in my reporting and writing. And I've sat by in utter silence as one wave of corruption and extremism has crashed into the next my entire adult life.

This space gives me a place to vent, and range, and bitch -- and interact with others of like mind, as well as those in opposition. And after 18 months of blogging, my friend, I'm still just getting started.
 

I've passed it on to everyone else... it's your turn.

Smith v Maryland - US Supreme Court Case 1979 - Phone Records belong to phone company, no privacy
 

el, you need to go to the library and check out any one of a dozen books on Big Daddy aka Puzzel Palace aka No Such Agency aka Never Say Anything aka NSA. You don't need to rely on my b.s. that NSA collects every electronic (ELINT) or communication (SIGINT) signal of any type or ilk any and all the time and everywhere in the world, and near space including the good ole U.S.A.. It has been published in detail over and over again for the past 50+ years.
They have acres and acres of the latest Crays that function at trillions of calculations per second.
They are damn facinating and lieing is their duty. They can lose these corporate connections and they won't miss a single call because of their back-up systems.
It will just be a little inconvient for them and cost a bit more.
 

ECHELON:
Before the September 11, 2001 attacks and the legislation which followed it, US intelligence agencies were generally prohibited from spying on people inside the US and other western countries' intelligence services generally faced similar restrictions within their own countries. There are allegations, however, that ECHELON and the UKUSA alliance were used to circumvent these restrictions by, for example, having the UK facilities spy on people inside the US and the US facilites spy on people in the UK, with the agencies exchanging data (perhaps even automatically through the ECHELON system without human intervention).

The proposed US-only "Total Information Awareness" program relied on technology similar to ECHELON, and was to integrate the extensive sources it is legally permitted to survey domestically, with the "taps" already compiled by ECHELON. It was cancelled by the U.S. Congress in 2004.

It has been alleged that in 2002 the Bush Administration extended the ECHELON program to domestic surveillance. This controversy was the subject of the New York Times eavesdropping exposé of December, 2005.
 

Wikipedia? Riiigghht. Like Wikipedia actually posted a comment. Like Wikipedia is actually definitive, and authoritative.

I'll buy that for a dollar.