Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

We learn from our mistakes. Let her make her own and be there to prop her up if she slips.
 

Just fergawdsake make sure she's heard of contraception. That's one "mistake" she really doesn't need to make at this point in her life.
 

She just left. Dr. ER and I are actually relieved.

This was an hour or so after I told her she'd gone past the point of no return with a few things as far as I'm concerned, but she had a chance to make things right with her mama.

She came to me after stumbling around with some apologies and explanations, etc., with her mama, begging to be allowed to leave, to go back to Stillwater, "to think." That would be the first time in awhile.

I told her to get the hell on out, and not to get used to the car she's driving, the cell phone she's talking on, or the laptop she's using for school.

Taking them away wouldn't be punishment, y'all, although it would have that effect -- it'd be giving her what she thinks she wants: independence.

Dr. ER, who knows what words like this mean, and all its ramifications, is using the word "sociopath." From what I know of the term, I see it, too.

Anon.: She will make her mistakes and fall on her face, or she will prove herself right, and us wrong.

Skywind: As far as the contracepts, she's in a health-related curriculum and was on the welcome-to-college committee that passed out condoms, after an intro-to-health class, last year.

However, she has proven that knowledge of circumstance, and exposure to consequences, do not necessarily lead her to wise decisions.

"Whoopie." (Bird retort to reasoned discourse from Dr. ER last night, moments after wrecking a perfectly fine game of Scrabble by going effing bersack out of the blue.)
 

This is from the article on antisocial personality disorder from Wikipedia that rings true in this situation, as well as scattered others the past couple of years. Interesting is that her normal range of emotions has always been pretty narrow:

"Research has shown that individuals with APD are indifferent to the possibility of physical pain or many punishments, and show no indications that they experience fear when so threatened; this may explain their apparent disregard for the consequences of their actions, and their lack of empathy when others are suffering.

"Central to understanding psychopaths is that they do not appear to experience true human emotions, or at least, they do not appear to experience a full range of human emotions. This can explain the lack of empathy for the suffering of others, since they cannot experience emotion associated with either empathy or suffering. Risk-seeking behavior and substance abuse may be attempts to fill the emotional void. The rage exhibited by psychopaths and the anxiety associated with certain types of ASPD may represent the limit of emotion experienced, or they may be physiological responses without analogy to emotion experienced by others."

Note: No signs of drinking or drugging.
 

I'm no expert, brother, but I'd advise taking a step back yourself and taking a few breaths. I find myself having to do that from time to time.

When she loses her head, maintain yours. Or step away until you can.

We were young once too, remember?

We turned out all right.

Peace to you.
Anon.
 

Thanks. I am stepping and breathing. This is largely between the girls at this point. I remain, as I often have, as referee and moderator.
 

What sort of 'warped priorities' is the guy displaying?
 

No, no, his presence has warped her priorities. Awkward phrasing on my part.
 

Thanks, Nick. Kind, wise words, those.
 

Wow. This all sounds so familiar, though my worst asocial phase came when a bit earlier in age. What Nick said was very right in my case--it took a few years, but I did eventually realize how badly I'd hurt my folks and some others. Bird may well quit acting like this long before she fully understands the pain she's caused.

I'm sorry y'all are having to go through this, but she'll be fine in the end. And so will you.
 

Kiki, timing is part of why we're so surprised. We held out breath through her earlier teens, but she was a grade-A "good kid." ... Now, it really is like she's 15 or 16.
 

I'll take her.

It sounds like she's going through some of the stuff I went through at her age. It's a tough thing, this coupling/independence move, and it's hard to negotiate having two sets of people to whom one feels attached, and two different, and in some ways competing identities: daughter and "part of a couple." 3&8, you haven't made a mistake; she'll just have to sort this stuff through, and once she figures out how to negotiate it all more gracefully, things will settle down. Being an adult and relating to one's parents as both an adult and a daughter takes time to learn. She'll be fine, and so will you.

Now that she's gone back to school, put some music on, have some of that cider yourselves, dance in the living room, maybe go to bed together early ;)
 

Maybe you will luck out by driving her away. She could be working at McDonalds and have her own place before dark.
 

Anon., The only one driving her away is herself.

And if she DID wind up working at McDonalds, I'd consider that an apt and appropriate reward for her rash behavior, whether or not she had her own place. I certainly would not consider that an example of us, or her, having "lucked out."

B, I know this in my head. It's my ol' redneck heart, and her mama's that ache. And I suppose that is as it should be.

It just amazes us that she feels "held hostage" -- her own words -- by a system of support that she doesn't even fully acknowledge. And that, too, I guess, is typical.
 

Ok
I'll start the vote:
1. Would anyone reading this now, at age 19, rather have been home on a weekend with two old farts, or out, just driving around hoping to run into or wave at someone you knew?
2. Did anyone reading this ever raise your voice, slam a door, or throw something when an old fart (parent) scolded, raised his/her voice, or threaten you with punishment for anything real or imagined that you had or hadn't done?
3. Would you have gone completely off the deep end and completely lost it if every time things didn't go exactly as the old farts in charge wanted they ranted and raved about you to a bunch of complete strangers on the fricking internet?
4. Did any of you ever think about just moving to the other side of the country and being a missing person?

I know someone that left home at 18 and didn't even call for 8 years. When they came home the whole family was so glad they were alive that they didn't even care why they couldn't get along in the first place. Fast forward 20 years what do they do but the same thing happened to them. Had a daughter that couldn't do anything right. Had pictures of rock & roll bands on her bedroom wall, wore clothes that the parents didn't like, and on and on. I asked about the daughter a couple of years ago and was told she hadn't been seen for 7 or 8 years. So, it can always get worse. Tread lightly.
 

Sounds like she's being a teenager. She could be worse. Much worse.

My step son went to jail the first time when he was 12. Now he's 21, his mother is missing, he's homeless, he has a gunshot wound in his back, and his future plans include getting a GED. Beyond that, he doesn't know.

My daughter is 25 living with a guy that's still married to his other kid's mother, and has a baby boy herself.
 

Oh, Forgot my advice. Leave her alone. She'll come around.
 

And she's been pretty well perfect up to now, right? I personally was raised to be a gentleman above all else, and part of growing up for me included acting a bit more childish in my late adolescence than had been possible when I was younger.
I was a real pain in the ass, said and did things that just about any parent would find objectionable, and the difference is that they never let me forget that I was loved.
Eventually I grew up and realized that my parents are just people like anyone else, and there just isn't a manual that comes with a kid. So I forgave them for being human, and along the way they developed a better understanding of exactly how variable human nature is.
 

It's easy to forget that this place IS just a bunch of strangers passing one another and stopping to have conversation on one of the latest of life's byways.

So many of you are regulars that I feel like we're friends, and we are, of a sort. Others of you we really do know.

Then there are the strangers who put the "rank" in "rank stranger."

To the most recent Anon. Thanks for the advice. It is sound.

But you put it in an incredibly cruel and careless way to one, or two, actually, who are coping with sadness-madness and gladness (that, in the greater scheme of thing, this is a nothing), and dare to reveal such raw feelings to such rank strangers.

Coming from a friend such would have been appreciated, however harsh.

Coming from you, who we do not know, it's insulting.

My fault for forgetting the nature of this place.

But I suggest that if you respond, respond to our emotions, not to what you think is a complete set of facts.

Better yet, I think I would prefer, as basic and childish as it sounds, that if you don't have something encouraging to say, then you say nothing, that you, yourself, "tread lightly" -- and that will be the standard by which all subsequent comments will be judged.
 

You never cease to amaze me. If I had a cute little made up name the advice would be appreciated, but if it comes from an anonymous person its insulting. Just from that statement you show why she runs and hides from the likes of you. You discriminate, you profile, you judge a book by it’s cover, you think you are smarter than every one else. Why, because you have a cute little made up name. GOD HELP YOU
 

Forgive me for thinking you could learn from hearing of others mistakes.
 

You are one cruel bastard.

Go away.
 

Gosh, ER, just keep loving her. She'll no doubt wish she hadn't bailed when she comes home for Christmas and sees the tree and yard had been done without her. Even if she doesn't miss it now, she will later.

Go on with the plans and activities as usual, always leaving the door open for her to return without question.

I'll join Nick in those prayers for ya'll. :)
 

On second thought, I already feel like shit.

So anybody else who wants to kick a man when he's down, go ahead and lay into me. It will make YOU feel better and superior!

Bring it on. Give it your best shot. It will make YOU feel better and superior!

Feel free to fill in the gaps with facts of your own making, and feel free to let go of months of anger at me for other things I've written. It will make YOU feel better and superior!

Screw that without-sin bullshit -- cast stones! It will make YOU feel better and superior!

I haven't been hit in the gut like this in awhile. What does not kill makes me stronger, right Anon?

Go away, Anon.
 

Anon, you just don't get it, do you? You gave sound advice that ER appreciates.

But you did so by being such an extreme asshole that it's hard to take.

He's saying harsh advice, while likely sound, is still hard to take, especially when you're bothered by the circumstances presented. It's less difficult to take when it's from someone you know and care about.

There are some of us who blog that actually know ER and his Misses, and while we have cutesy nicknames, we care about that family. Still, if I'm as big an asshole dishing out advice to my friend and his family as you were, he'd still be pretty ticked off at me.

The fact that you AREN'T someone who is close to the family, well, you're just an asshole then.

Until you recognize that, why should ER, Doc ER or Bird give a shit about any advice you might offer? So quit being an asshole and move on.

ER, I haven't popped in on this because I have no advice for you. I'll offer my prayers and my thoughts. Maybe while Bird can be a mature 19, she's stil 19 and can be a giant turd, too. I hope it only gets better.

God bless you all
 

I just clicked on your blog, read this entry and wanted to throw some cyber-encouragement your way. My mom's advice (and she held to this through each of the bits of insanity her three kids threw at her) is to just do everything out of love. I guess as parents all we can do is love our kids, pray for them and let God take it from there.

What do I know, though, mine are only 3 years and 9 months old.
 

And with that, I have been visited by an angel of mercy. Thanks, Mrs. Wheezer.
 

Don't you just love it when your kid breezes in, shits in the living room, and then escapes? Got three of these guys. They've all done it at some time or latter.
Wouldn't trade any one of the little bastards for anything else in the world.(actually they are 25, 28, and 31)
Now, I have reviewed your agenda for this week-end and I can see how you think that it was perfectly reasonable, folksey even, Walton Mountainish, etc..
But as a previous "anon" has said what does a 19 year old really want to do? Maybe, just maybe, the agenda was a bit too old foegyish and more your dream of tranquility than hers. Maybe she did feel trapped.
Then, there is the fact that parents simply don't know everything that has been going on in their kid's life, and what may have preceeded this event.
Cut her some slack and see what happens in the future.
And yes, forgive and remember.
 

Heartache comes with being a parent. And lashing out at the things that make one secure is, in its perverse way, evidence of her love for both of you: if she didn't trust you to take it, she might be less inclined to let fly. You know that really she's letting fly at herself, or at an image she has of herself.

FWIW, one of the moments that irretrievable changed my relationship with my dad for the better was when he made a mistake that hurt me a lot, I blew up at him, and he TOOK IT. He let me know, in his way, that he wasn't going to go away (as I'd told him to), but that he was also sorry that he'd stepped on my toe, so to speak. He has since really made clear efforts not to repeat the kind of careless mistake it was--and I mean just careless, not intentional or mean-spirited at all, just sometimes my dad forgets things that are important to other people. I can see him really making an effort not to do that with me. That he makes the effort is really touching, but the thing that really showed me that he was a really good father was that when I threw some of the mistakes he'd made in his face like a four-year old, he was able to handle it calmly. And to care / be hurt more by my own anger and sense of grievance than by the anger or defensiveness he might have been expected to feel on his part.

You all will be fine.
 

Drlobojo, You're probably right.

Slack is being cut.

Remember, y'all, that a blog is a dynamic thing, not a static thing. This post started out sad-jilted, evolved into something kin to self-pity, lurched into anger, and now is leveling off.
 

Thanks, B.
 

Oh gosh, E.R. and Dr. E.R., I am sorry that your holiday wound up spoiled. Hugs to your whole family; I hope things quickly blow over and some sort of detente is reached before the end of the semester. My only "advice" is just remember she is 19, and part of her job is to separate and become an individual. It's not an easy job for anyone involved in it, as I sorely remember from my "wanna be grown and away from here" days.
 

It's possible that Anon is someone who knows ER and his Missus too well. ER isn't kind even to friends when they give him advice, good or otherwise, that he disagrees with. Bird has to try her wings as does any fledgling. There's always some nest damage when that happens. Even in the best of families where everyone is a paragon of common sense and kindness, tread lightly is good advice. We forget that sometimes blood isn't enough to bind us together.
 

And there's more than one anon running aroun here too!
 

It's possible. And perhaps when I aim broadly, at the great universe of anonymi, I come across as unkind to those who know me.

I'm sorry about that.

I don't think I owe the use of kid gloves, though, to people I either don't know or who choose to stay unknown.

"Redneck" is on the title of this place for a reason! This discourse will not always be kind, or even well-thought-out!

Why anyone would keep coming back to a place where they feel they are being treated unkindly is beyond me. Anyone who feels that way, just stay away.

I reject the accusation that I am unkind in general, although in the heat of the moment, like ahyone, I can come across that way.

Rather, I do not suffer fools gladly, and I call it like I -- I! I! I! -- see here precisely because I choose not to have a public voice because my job is more important.

Don't like it? Click on. Turn the page. Change the channel.