Thursday, September 22, 2005
Pan-fried conspiracy
By The Erudite Redneck
My right-wing bloggy buddy TugboatCapn poses some questions and demands some information and accountability regarding who knew what, when, how and why regarding the Saudi attackers of 9/11.
I join him in setting aside politics, for purposes of this subject.
No doubt, evil lurks at the highest, shadiest levels of government. No doubt. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And nothing is more powerful in a supposedly free society than a secret government anything.
Aside: I am privy to a multimillion-dollar business deal about to go down. It involves at least moderate risk to the investors. It involves public resources and local government, which is supposed to be pretty transarent regarding such deals.
The fact is, despite laws requiring the posting of agendas, open meetings and such, despite mechanisms that are supposed to allow open discussion and public debate, this deal is going on in a couple of boardrooms out of the public light. It will be handed to elected leaders, who will approve it, I am positive.
And they should. It's a good deal. The people involved are good people. But it could not happen at all if the strict letter of the law were followed at every step of the way. It's a multilayered, complicated deal.
Things like that happen at all levels of government, all the time, for good reason, for the common good.
What Tugboat is writing about is a complicated deal, too, but it has a sinister air about it.
Here's his point:
The story, according to Fox news is that the Army's special intel project known as Able-Danger identified four of the nineteen hijackers, as well as Mohammad Atta more than a year before 9/11, and when they tried to report their findings, they were not only ignored, but threatened and told to stand down by their superiors.
Read it all here.
While I'm on the subject of conspiracy, check this out, a site that purports to debunk a story going around for four years now that it wasn't really a passenger jet that hit the Pentagon on 9/11.
Check it out here.
This is a particularly hard-to-resist story. I flirted with it myself, based on an extremely well-put-together flash video, complete with haunting music.
Check it out here.
Finally, there's this:
A handbook that offers advice to bloggers who want to protect themselves from recrimination and censors has been released by Reporters Without Borders.
Here's a story on it, from BBC. I acknowledge that I know nothing about Reporters without Borders. (Based in Paris. Multilingual. Click on "Enter.")
All kinds of red meat above. Enjoy.
END
My right-wing bloggy buddy TugboatCapn poses some questions and demands some information and accountability regarding who knew what, when, how and why regarding the Saudi attackers of 9/11.
I join him in setting aside politics, for purposes of this subject.
No doubt, evil lurks at the highest, shadiest levels of government. No doubt. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And nothing is more powerful in a supposedly free society than a secret government anything.
Aside: I am privy to a multimillion-dollar business deal about to go down. It involves at least moderate risk to the investors. It involves public resources and local government, which is supposed to be pretty transarent regarding such deals.
The fact is, despite laws requiring the posting of agendas, open meetings and such, despite mechanisms that are supposed to allow open discussion and public debate, this deal is going on in a couple of boardrooms out of the public light. It will be handed to elected leaders, who will approve it, I am positive.
And they should. It's a good deal. The people involved are good people. But it could not happen at all if the strict letter of the law were followed at every step of the way. It's a multilayered, complicated deal.
Things like that happen at all levels of government, all the time, for good reason, for the common good.
What Tugboat is writing about is a complicated deal, too, but it has a sinister air about it.
Here's his point:
The story, according to Fox news is that the Army's special intel project known as Able-Danger identified four of the nineteen hijackers, as well as Mohammad Atta more than a year before 9/11, and when they tried to report their findings, they were not only ignored, but threatened and told to stand down by their superiors.
Read it all here.
While I'm on the subject of conspiracy, check this out, a site that purports to debunk a story going around for four years now that it wasn't really a passenger jet that hit the Pentagon on 9/11.
Check it out here.
This is a particularly hard-to-resist story. I flirted with it myself, based on an extremely well-put-together flash video, complete with haunting music.
Check it out here.
Finally, there's this:
A handbook that offers advice to bloggers who want to protect themselves from recrimination and censors has been released by Reporters Without Borders.
Here's a story on it, from BBC. I acknowledge that I know nothing about Reporters without Borders. (Based in Paris. Multilingual. Click on "Enter.")
All kinds of red meat above. Enjoy.
END
Comments:
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Having played in the arena of Signal Intelligence long long ago and far far away, I picked up on the Able Baker story early on. I have been wondering how long it would take to catch on in the media proper. Even now I think it has become important because FOX wants to paint the Clinton administration in a bad light in order to make a pre-emptive strike at the supposed run for the presidency by Hillery. But Fox has unlocked a Pandora's Box that will superceed it targeted purpose.
I would like to mull over a few of the known items about the Able Baker story. The data that they had acquired and then destroyed, is said to have equaled half of all the volumes in the Library of Congress.
Data on what? Has to be data on people doesn't it? What people? Everybody? Anybody? Saudi People? Middleastern people? That's a hell of a lot of data and represents a collection system somewhat larger than mangable by a handful of special operatives. Another point, that kind of data never really "dies", unless you physically destroy the data system that held it.
What issues could possibly tie Bush 43, Clinton , and Bush 41, that they ALL would want it silenced and kept silenced?
These guys and their cohorts are hardly buddy-buddy, why would they cooperate? Could it be, Oil? Saudian Arabian Oil? Illegal intrusions into the privacy of American citizens? Both? Other?
What ever it is, it is an unforgivable sin that they are worried will come to light. Keep digging FOX, but be advised you may be digging down a badger hole.
I would like to mull over a few of the known items about the Able Baker story. The data that they had acquired and then destroyed, is said to have equaled half of all the volumes in the Library of Congress.
Data on what? Has to be data on people doesn't it? What people? Everybody? Anybody? Saudi People? Middleastern people? That's a hell of a lot of data and represents a collection system somewhat larger than mangable by a handful of special operatives. Another point, that kind of data never really "dies", unless you physically destroy the data system that held it.
What issues could possibly tie Bush 43, Clinton , and Bush 41, that they ALL would want it silenced and kept silenced?
These guys and their cohorts are hardly buddy-buddy, why would they cooperate? Could it be, Oil? Saudian Arabian Oil? Illegal intrusions into the privacy of American citizens? Both? Other?
What ever it is, it is an unforgivable sin that they are worried will come to light. Keep digging FOX, but be advised you may be digging down a badger hole.
# posted by 
: 11:11 AM
: 11:11 AM
What was it Jack Nicholson said about the truth. "You can't handle the Truth".
# posted by : 11:21 AM
: 11:21 AM
Maybe we CAN't handle the truth. ... There's a reason, nay reasons, that diplomacy is left to the experts in a democracy.
Call the whole thing Area 102.
Twice as scary as Area 51.
Somebody call Fox and Mulder.
--ER
Call the whole thing Area 102.
Twice as scary as Area 51.
Somebody call Fox and Mulder.
--ER
LOL! "a story going around for four years now that it wasn't really a passenger jet that hit the Pentagon on 9/11."
That's almost as silly as the theory I've heard that Bush himself attacked the WTC on 9/11!
My take on this whole thing, is this: It doesn't matter if the right peole were alerted to Mohammed Atta being in the country and possibly planning something horrific or not.
Had he been arrested or detained, Osama bin Laden would have simply replaced him and the attacks would have gone off as planned, unless poorly trained and inadequate security personnel could have stopped them from boarding.
That's almost as silly as the theory I've heard that Bush himself attacked the WTC on 9/11!
My take on this whole thing, is this: It doesn't matter if the right peole were alerted to Mohammed Atta being in the country and possibly planning something horrific or not.
Had he been arrested or detained, Osama bin Laden would have simply replaced him and the attacks would have gone off as planned, unless poorly trained and inadequate security personnel could have stopped them from boarding.
"It" is probably the looming threat of that sleeping giant China (even if the threat is 1 billion capitalist-leaning consumers) AND oil.
It was April 2001 when that Chinese jet hit the US reconnaissance plane and nearly created a major diplomatic problem. And -- help me out -- when did that US submarine come up under the Japanese fishing boat -- on a lark?
Oil explains a lot.
And the excuse of looking for Osama in Afghanistan? That puts us right over the mountains from Russia, also a China neighbor.
It was April 2001 when that Chinese jet hit the US reconnaissance plane and nearly created a major diplomatic problem. And -- help me out -- when did that US submarine come up under the Japanese fishing boat -- on a lark?
Oil explains a lot.
And the excuse of looking for Osama in Afghanistan? That puts us right over the mountains from Russia, also a China neighbor.
# posted by : 12:57 PM
: 12:57 PM
I should probably add that my reaction on 9-12-01, upon the umpteenth replaying of the Ari-in-the-ear-of-GW moment at the school in Florida, was that "they let it happen."
I had a sense of "that look" on GW's face being -- "holy, sh--, now we've got to put the rest of the plan in place....."
And I don't mean CYA plans, I mean whatever that attack was going to allow us to do, using it as an excuse.
I still don't know what "it" all means, I just have a sense that it was not at all unexpected and that there was a plan in place on how to move next to "take advantage of it."
I had a sense of "that look" on GW's face being -- "holy, sh--, now we've got to put the rest of the plan in place....."
And I don't mean CYA plans, I mean whatever that attack was going to allow us to do, using it as an excuse.
I still don't know what "it" all means, I just have a sense that it was not at all unexpected and that there was a plan in place on how to move next to "take advantage of it."
# posted by : 1:16 PM
: 1:16 PM
Here is a quote:
A weird reputational exchange has taken place between Clinton and President Bush. After so much dishonest reasoning it's the vaunted "CEO president" who begins to look like the callow, fumbling adolescent. And it's the sexually incontinent, burger-guzzling, late-night-gabbing Bubba who is emerging as a great CEO of America.
from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/21/AR2005092102036.html
A weird reputational exchange has taken place between Clinton and President Bush. After so much dishonest reasoning it's the vaunted "CEO president" who begins to look like the callow, fumbling adolescent. And it's the sexually incontinent, burger-guzzling, late-night-gabbing Bubba who is emerging as a great CEO of America.
from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/21/AR2005092102036.html
# posted by : 2:08 PM
: 2:08 PM
Incredibly cool article, that. Doesn't quite fit the thread, but great article.
The ER household so misses Bubba.
--ER
The ER household so misses Bubba.
--ER
Well, I think the suggestion is that it was a missile -- a U.S. missile -- that either got into terrorists' hands or was accidentally fired by the U.S. military. Which seems too incredible to believe. But not really, not when EVERYBODY was, as we say in rural eastern Oklahoma, shittin' their drawers. Dang near anything was possible that day.
--ER
--ER
The Able-Danger suppression is only the latest in the "nukular" war on democracy. By the way, we don't live in one. If we did, all of a Supreme Court nominees' legal papers would be disclosed because -- guess what? -- they have nothing to do with national security. American taxpayers pay for everything every damm bureaucrat -- up to and including the president -- does, yet we don't "own" the work we paid for. Bullshit. Wake up.
# posted by : 5:00 PM
: 5:00 PM
I saw the Pentagon video in January or February, and it seemed to make a compelling case, though Popular Mechanics did a debunking number shortly thereafter pointing out that the wings of planes tend to shear off when they hit walls, which seems likely, too.
The possibility of friendly fire is actually pretty high, either from confusion, someone using U.S. ordnance against us, or perhaps some awful grudge between the DOD and some faction within that particular section of the Pentagon sprung horribly to life.
Point is, ya' gotta consider all the possibilities. As I've said before, I know it's too awful to think about, but I think it's far more awful to consider that the unthinkable might just be what happened, and someone isn't being punished for it.
The possibility of friendly fire is actually pretty high, either from confusion, someone using U.S. ordnance against us, or perhaps some awful grudge between the DOD and some faction within that particular section of the Pentagon sprung horribly to life.
Point is, ya' gotta consider all the possibilities. As I've said before, I know it's too awful to think about, but I think it's far more awful to consider that the unthinkable might just be what happened, and someone isn't being punished for it.
Ask the families of all those who died on the plane at the Pentagon if it was really an airliner.
# posted by : 5:16 PM
: 5:16 PM
Hey, what was the name of the Cold War movie (1960 or '61) about a coup, or attempted coup, over a liberal president by the Joint Chiefs???
--ER
--ER
'Seven' days, that is. I just went over to Imdb.com to check it out.
One of the commenters described it as "too dated", which is sort of true-there's a great deal of speechifying in it that comes off a little hollow-but on the other hand, the scenario is hardly impossible, especially in this fantastic age of spin we live in.
One of the commenters described it as "too dated", which is sort of true-there's a great deal of speechifying in it that comes off a little hollow-but on the other hand, the scenario is hardly impossible, especially in this fantastic age of spin we live in.
"Ask the families of all those who died on the plane at the Pentagon if it was really an airliner."
Some of the people on the plane were on the phone with family as this was unfolding. As it happened, there were some fairly high-profile people on that plane -- where did they go if it was a missile? There were also eye-witnesses who saw the plane hit. Fairly easy to do ... the area is near a major highway.
Some of the people on the plane were on the phone with family as this was unfolding. As it happened, there were some fairly high-profile people on that plane -- where did they go if it was a missile? There were also eye-witnesses who saw the plane hit. Fairly easy to do ... the area is near a major highway.
# posted by : 8:01 PM
: 8:01 PM
I agree. That the missile story, or wgatever it is, has any currency at all shows to go ya how much distrust of the gubment there is out there.
--ER
--ER
Bachelor, you nailed it.
If this thing is what it looks like it is, it is way too horrible for my little bird brain to process, however, I have absolutely no patience or mercy for whoever is found to be culpable in this, if it indeed is as big a deal as it seems.
By the way, if the Government was really behind the 9/11 attacks, it would have been just as easy to get another plane to hit the Pentagon with as it would have been to use a missile, and those were NOT missiles that hit the Twin Towers. (I will NEVER forget that video.)
If it actually WAS a missile, then why did they use planes to hit the other targets?
The only other explaination of the missile theory is that at exactly the same moment on the same day that whoever was shooting missiles at the Pentagon launched their attack, The Terrorists carried out an unrelated attack of their own against the Twin Towers.
Sounds a little far-fetched to me.
The only thing that makes sense is that it was another plane.
If this thing is what it looks like it is, it is way too horrible for my little bird brain to process, however, I have absolutely no patience or mercy for whoever is found to be culpable in this, if it indeed is as big a deal as it seems.
By the way, if the Government was really behind the 9/11 attacks, it would have been just as easy to get another plane to hit the Pentagon with as it would have been to use a missile, and those were NOT missiles that hit the Twin Towers. (I will NEVER forget that video.)
If it actually WAS a missile, then why did they use planes to hit the other targets?
The only other explaination of the missile theory is that at exactly the same moment on the same day that whoever was shooting missiles at the Pentagon launched their attack, The Terrorists carried out an unrelated attack of their own against the Twin Towers.
Sounds a little far-fetched to me.
The only thing that makes sense is that it was another plane.
I'm back, by the way.
Didja miss me?!?
Thanks for linking to my post, Dude.
I always consider that a great honor...
Didja miss me?!?
Thanks for linking to my post, Dude.
I always consider that a great honor...
Tug, :-).
Maybe next time I feel an angry rant comin' on regarding el presidente I'll try to give you a heads-up. Then I'll give you an all-clear. (Wishful: Rants, by definition hit like a tornado, not a hurricane. Not much time to plan!)
--ER
Maybe next time I feel an angry rant comin' on regarding el presidente I'll try to give you a heads-up. Then I'll give you an all-clear. (Wishful: Rants, by definition hit like a tornado, not a hurricane. Not much time to plan!)
--ER
I apreciate that, ER.
I just don't want us to get mad with each other.
Differences of opinion are no reason for hostility, and that's what I was trying to avoid.
Thank you for understanding.
You're okay, for a white Dude...
I just don't want us to get mad with each other.
Differences of opinion are no reason for hostility, and that's what I was trying to avoid.
Thank you for understanding.
You're okay, for a white Dude...
DISCLAIMER:
"for a white Dude" is simply a figure of speech.
I do not intend to imply that I have anything whatsoever against white people, nor do I favor white people over people of other races, based upon their race.
I respect all honest, intelligent, and moral people, and despise all dishonest, amoral idiots, regardless of their particular race, color, creed, nationality, heritage, religion, car brand or professional sport or sports team, NASCAR driver, or softdrink preference.
I am an equal opportunity blogger.
Post a Comment
"for a white Dude" is simply a figure of speech.
I do not intend to imply that I have anything whatsoever against white people, nor do I favor white people over people of other races, based upon their race.
I respect all honest, intelligent, and moral people, and despise all dishonest, amoral idiots, regardless of their particular race, color, creed, nationality, heritage, religion, car brand or professional sport or sports team, NASCAR driver, or softdrink preference.
I am an equal opportunity blogger.
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