Sunday, July 24, 2005
"Take Back the Memorial"
There's a place for debate. Ground Zero is not it.
As one of the linked writers observed, what they're talking about would be like erecting "a Museum of Tolerance above the USS Arizona."
Read it and weep:
Take Back the Memorial.
--ER
As one of the linked writers observed, what they're talking about would be like erecting "a Museum of Tolerance above the USS Arizona."
Read it and weep:
Take Back the Memorial.
--ER
Comments:
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Well, like I said a couple of posts back: the people who died were largely from New York, and were not so much into our current administration. In fact, if one were of a conspiratorial frame of mind, one could say that the city in question is the one that most certainly our present administration would want to be hit by a terrorist attack.
Or, since it's the biggest city in America, and the most representative of Us as a culture, it would make the most reasonable target. In any case, all the rest of these people who want to make the grief of others into some rah-rah jingoistic bullshit are going to have yet further hard of a time telling me that they have respect for human life and dignity. They only want to score political points, and should hang their damn heads in shame.
Or, since it's the biggest city in America, and the most representative of Us as a culture, it would make the most reasonable target. In any case, all the rest of these people who want to make the grief of others into some rah-rah jingoistic bullshit are going to have yet further hard of a time telling me that they have respect for human life and dignity. They only want to score political points, and should hang their damn heads in shame.
Bachelor, that is balderdash. Bald.er.dash.
The targets hit by the terrorists on 9/11 were symbolic. The WTC represented the US's economic power, the Pentagon, the US's military power, and, since it has been reported the 4th plane was aiming for the White House, political power. If they had been looking to just kill as many people as they could they would have targeted the Super Bowl.
The targets hit by the terrorists on 9/11 were symbolic. The WTC represented the US's economic power, the Pentagon, the US's military power, and, since it has been reported the 4th plane was aiming for the White House, political power. If they had been looking to just kill as many people as they could they would have targeted the Super Bowl.
I wonder if Rich had been hittin' the firewater. This wasn't his usual lucid, logical self.
Let's discuss and debate what freedom menas. Let's not do it where 3,000-plus fell.
I've seen an awful lot of memorials to war and death, mostly of the Civil War variety. If we can't agree on this one thing -- that any memorial to the fallen at WTC should be somber, and emotional, and not critical and over-intellectializing -- then leave a big f------ hole in the ground -- because THAT would serve the purpose more appropriately.
Myself, I do not want people to "think" at any memorial. That is not the purpose. I want them to SEETHE. Or WEEP. Or be encouraged. Or be inspired. THAT is the purpose of a war memorial.
Let's discuss and debate what freedom menas. Let's not do it where 3,000-plus fell.
I've seen an awful lot of memorials to war and death, mostly of the Civil War variety. If we can't agree on this one thing -- that any memorial to the fallen at WTC should be somber, and emotional, and not critical and over-intellectializing -- then leave a big f------ hole in the ground -- because THAT would serve the purpose more appropriately.
Myself, I do not want people to "think" at any memorial. That is not the purpose. I want them to SEETHE. Or WEEP. Or be encouraged. Or be inspired. THAT is the purpose of a war memorial.
I hope NYC isn't used as a political statement. That is just wrong.
The OKC bombing memorial is lovely, serene, and a place to remember the people who died (I have not been able to go to the museum yet).
The only thing I dislike about it is that it is a "tourist attraction" which seems a little morbid to me.
The OKC bombing memorial is lovely, serene, and a place to remember the people who died (I have not been able to go to the museum yet).
The only thing I dislike about it is that it is a "tourist attraction" which seems a little morbid to me.
Jodie, I agree with all three of yer points.
Can't seem to bring myself to do the OKC museum. But I hear it's on point, as it should be.
Can't seem to bring myself to do the OKC museum. But I hear it's on point, as it should be.
Isn't that interesting? I go to the OKC Memorial frequently, but here 10 years after the fact have never gone to the musuem proper.
Night before you posted this thread I had a nightmare of being in New York with friends from there. In the way that dreams do, it was somewhat twisted, with the second tower still standing. They wanted to take me to the top floor in the elevator, which was reinforced with steel panels. All I could do was fall to the ground crying, knowing the fate of that tower had not yet been played out.
Night before you posted this thread I had a nightmare of being in New York with friends from there. In the way that dreams do, it was somewhat twisted, with the second tower still standing. They wanted to take me to the top floor in the elevator, which was reinforced with steel panels. All I could do was fall to the ground crying, knowing the fate of that tower had not yet been played out.
I thought I made it perfectly clear to you that the firewater and I have a close, working relationship.
I agree that it ought to be a hole in the ground. That speaks volumes.
To Pastor Timothy (and any number of bumper stickers I've seen): at what point has anyone tried to make you Not remember that day? At what point were you ever given an opportunity to do so? Never, and you never will.
As to the rest of what I was saying-I don't wanna start a fire here but...It took forty years for anyone to admit publicly that they knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen, too.
I agree that it ought to be a hole in the ground. That speaks volumes.
To Pastor Timothy (and any number of bumper stickers I've seen): at what point has anyone tried to make you Not remember that day? At what point were you ever given an opportunity to do so? Never, and you never will.
As to the rest of what I was saying-I don't wanna start a fire here but...It took forty years for anyone to admit publicly that they knew Pearl Harbor was gonna happen, too.
An addendum: Mark, I don't think what you said and what I said are in any way at odds. The part about "...most representative of Us as a culture..." sits pretty comfortably alongside your 'targets...were symbolic' thing. So what part is balderdash?
The thing that has made me mad about the Take Back The Monument folks has always been that they seem to want to put their own political spin on that gravesite of so many people who maybe just maybe didn't agree with them, and I think that's just plain sick.
The thing that has made me mad about the Take Back The Monument folks has always been that they seem to want to put their own political spin on that gravesite of so many people who maybe just maybe didn't agree with them, and I think that's just plain sick.
I would say the insinuation that the targeting of New York was done by the administraion is nalderdash. Not even the Libs would be so insensitive as to suggest that. Well, maybe Howard Dean would, but no one else.
But here's the deal. The attack was not on NYC. The attack was on the United States. The target was in NYC. I don't care too much that the politics of the day did not support the currently administrating adminstration on 9/11. The hole torn in this country was torn in this country -- not just NYC. Ergo, what the people who happen to live closest to the tear think, while it should be taken into consideration, should not be the driving factor.
Further, someone needs to direct me to the documentation that shows someone -- in a posituon to do anythign about it -- KNEW that Pearl Harbor was fixing to be bombed. Of course, it was a target. But ... (And I stand ready to examine any evidence put forth, even trustworthy secondary sources).
Here's a topic: Have you ever wondered why America proper hasn't been attacked by al-Qaida since 9/11? Is it because al-Qaida was a slow-moving, years-heavy organization that can only mount major attacks about every seven years? (WTC I and II).
Is the lack of attacks because the Bush administration has done such a great job throwing any suspected al-Qaida member into dungeons without any regard to due process or civilized legality? If so, do you credit the Clinton administration with a huge success against al-Qaida because it "prevented" an American-soil attack for so long from 1993-2001?
Consider and discuss.
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Is the lack of attacks because the Bush administration has done such a great job throwing any suspected al-Qaida member into dungeons without any regard to due process or civilized legality? If so, do you credit the Clinton administration with a huge success against al-Qaida because it "prevented" an American-soil attack for so long from 1993-2001?
Consider and discuss.
# posted by 
: 9:28 PM
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