Rev. Erudite Redneck, B.S., B.S., M.A., M.Div.

Awhile back me and blog buddy Bitch, Ph.D., who is way to my left, got into a heated but respectful discussion about homosexuality.

Yesterday, me and another blog buddy, Frenzied Feline, who is way to my right, got into a discussion about conservative Oklahoma Democrats having nowhere to turn to in the last election but Bush.

Here is yesterday's colloquy, lifted from the comments, presented as another example of how to disagreee without being disagreeable.

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So, whom do they vote for then?? :)
# posted by FrenziedFeline : 8:30 PM

:-)
Here's who they vote for, for lack of an alternative:

"Who are they? I mean the people obsessed with control using the government to threaten and intimidate; I mean the people who are hollowing out middle class security even as they enlist the sons and daughters of the working class to make sure Ahmad Chalabi winds up controlling Iraq’s oil; I mean the people who turn faith-based initiatives into Karl Rove’s slush fund; who encourage the pious to look heavenward and pray so as not to see the long arm of privilege and power picking their pockets; I mean the people who squelch free speech in an effort to obliterate dissent and consolidate their orthodoxy into the official view of reality from which any deviation becomes unpatriotic heresy. That’s who I mean."
-- Bill Moyers
# posted by ThePress : 10:05 AM

"And these people are not naturally "red." They're blue. But no way in hell, or in heaven's name, would most of 'em vote for a Yankee lefty. Dems take heed."

--ER
"These people" are the people I ask for whom they vote. You say they're blue, but won't vote for a Yankee lefty. Seems most of what's offered on the left, for the bigger positions, are Yankee lefties. Who does that leave for "these people" to vote for?
# posted by FrenziedFeline : 11:43 AM

I understood you Frenzied. And the answer is in that Moyers quote: They voted for Bush because, with no viable alternative, they fell for his faith talk, the fact that he is a (pseudo)Texan and sounds like "just folks." They were, and are, for the war in Iraq, mostly (but not all). The national Dems keeps running hard left, and the rural eastern Okie Dems will keep voting Repub. "Blue" does not mean stupid-crazy-lefty. It means, in the parlance of the day, "Democrat." These people -- MY people -- are Dems, fairly socially conservative ones, but freedom-loving, like myself. And the national Democratic Party has just about abandoned them.
# posted by ThePress : 12:11 PM

Go to www.electoral-vote.com/2004/past-elections/2000.html.

Scroll down to the second national map. Note the blue counties in eastern Oklahoma. They went with Gore in 2000. My home county did not, actually; it is adjacent to Fort Smith, the most conservative city and area in Arkansas, and is being suburbanized. I don't think a single county in Oklahoma went with Kerry in 2004.
# posted by ThePress : 12:16 PM

So why don't they just register Republican and vote Dem when they can find someone with whom they can agree?

You're right, according to the county map on USAToday.com, OK is completely red. CA looks like it stayed the same. Thank goodness my county is one of the red ones. :)
# posted by FrenziedFeline : 1:51 PM

Habit, probably, as much as anything. But, truly, it is a poor-poor part of the state, with lots of American Indians, and most of them still find more succor with the Dems than the Repubs. Myself, I can STILL stomach the extreme lefties in the Dem party easier than I can stomach the extreme righties of the Repub party, and I imagine that lots of my fellow eastern Okie peeps feel the same way. Further, holdin' yer nose and votin' for a Repub president over a Yankee lefty ain't no reason to change party affiliation! There's more to partisanship that the very tippy-top of the ballot.
# posted by ThePress : 2:03 PM

If the poor, poor American Indians have been following the Dems all this time, why aren't they in better circumstances by now?
# posted by FrenziedFeline : 2:18 PM

Well, they ARE better off than they were until FDR hepped 'em. Lots of them were living in dirt and eating whatever they could kill until then. And THAT's who, and what, they remember, to this day. Further, right now there is a big brouhaha going on between those who are defending the last scraps of Indian sovereignty, and the big business (read: Republican) community, who want to strip it from them. The jerks simply cannot stand to see Indian tribes find success.
# posted by ThePress : 3:12 PM

To the left is a new link in the Blogroll. "Blue Dog Coalition." Read about the Blue Dogs. These are the kinds of Dems I'm talking about. U.S. Rep. Dan Boren, son of former U.S. Sen. David Boren, now president of the University of Oklahoma, who represents eastern Oklahoma, is one of 'em.
# posted by ThePress : 3:17 PM

By the way, I do not support the Blue Dogs' support of the recent bankruptcy reform.
# posted by ThePress : 3:19 PM

Hate to butt in on an A and B conversation.

I just wanted to comment on the local news. Sounds like a lot of "gospel" being pushed out there.

Anyway I can see how people out there could feel contempt from the current administration.
# posted by pecheur : 3:49 PM

And to throw in my personal 2 cents:
Party politics in Oklahoma has a long and strong history that many are not willing to give up. For the time from statehood until the '60s, this was strictly a Yellow Dog Democrat state. Very loyal and faithful to the party. People here were grateful for what the Dems did for them in Washington, getting reservoirs and highways here to end the Dust Bowl Days. WPA projects helped make this state habitable.
Younger voters are less likely to remember those days, but I REMEMBER going to the christenings of dams in eastern Oklahoma as a family with my parents and grandparents, they were that important. Yep, we even had home movies of being the first people to walk across the dams and ooh and ahhh about their magnificence.
And yes, they changed this state, not only by controlling flooding and making irrigation possible for farmers, but by providing electric service to areas that previously had little or no service. No service, no homes. No homes, no people. No people, no jobs. No jobs, no taxes.

And please, DO NOT get me started on the discussion about the rights of tribes to maintain sovereignty. I come down firmly on the side of the Indian nations. I'll say no more now, not here. Suffice it to say that this issue cuts deep with me.
# posted by Trixie : 5:18 PM

And may I add, no government, no service.

And since the Repubs, despite the current administration's dalliances with big statism, tend to dislike government, no Dems, no government.

I like government. There. Said out loud. It is We, the people!

Nothing gets me riled more than a bunch of Repubs trying to run a government they fundamentally dislike.
# posted by ThePress : 6:52 PM

Dab nab it! I had a comment and my dang computer froze.

Anyway, I think I said something like:

You're definitely not interrupting, Pecheur. I've been asking questions because I know next-to-nothing about OK history. It's been an interesting conversation.

I'll have to look up your references later, Press, when I have more time. We'll see if I have anything more to ask after that.

Thanks for the additional history lesson, Trix! :)
# posted by FrenziedFeline : 7:54 PM

Thanks feline lover!!!! I too love coming here and getting edumacated about OK history. ER really knows his stuff, or at least he pulls it off well. [Bingo. -- ER] I wish he would become a history prof somewhere and corrupt the minds of the innocent.

With much respect.
# posted by pecheur : 10:54 PM

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